| Author |
Message
|
| Kiri Mayako |
 Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:07 pm Post subject: A Growing Concern |
 |
|
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 10
|
Preface
To those biomechs who are not god-modders or otherwise overpowered:
1. My apologies. This is not aimed at you.
2. This should not affect you.
Introduction
I am starting to become concerned by the growth in power of the Midian Biomechs, and their effect on sim balance. Biomechs are the only group with superior abilities (or alleged superior abilities) who have no Masquerade-like restrictions on their powers. To be frank, I'm concerned that's being abused, after seeing mechs who are bullet, EMP, explosive, and (probably) nuke-proof. Though this may be fun for them, for those have to RP against such behemoths this is more irritating than entertaining. Therefore, I propose a couple solutions to see what, if anything, people think is fair and balanced.
Proposed Solutions
| Solution 1: Attribute Limits wrote: |
This solution is more complex, but has the advantage of allowing customization within a readily understandable framework. The core of this system is that every biomech is constrained by power. Power in turn is restricted by how the biomech acquires it.
The mech draws power from normal biological systems (muscles), which restricts them to generating approximately 200 watts of power (this is double the maximum power output of the quadricep, believed to be the strongest muscle in terms of power output). Biological power generation requires the mech to eat or otherwise gain energy, but has the advantage of being immune to EMPs.
The next solution would be an artificial power core. Fusion generators, being too advanced for the Midian tech-level, should be disallowed, restricting mechs to Nickel Metal-Hydride cells or Ion reactors, generating a maximum of 1000 watts (joules/second, or Newton * meters / second). However, when designing their mech, the player must consider more than just "Ooh, I can have an arm strength of 1000 watts! Awesome!" Simply put, the mech must route power to the brain (at least 3 watts), the legs (and mech weight must be taken into account when determining the mech's lifting ability - if the mech has enough lift a 100kg object at 1 m/s (the maximum these numbers allow) but weighs 95kg pounds, they only have a net capacity of 5kg at 1m/s (they could of course lift more weight, albeit more slowly.
|
| Solution 2: Certification wrote: |
Every mech who wishes to RP in Midian City must demonstrate that they won't violate sim balance to be certified as such. I sadly suspect the certifying board could not be made up of biomechs at the moment.
|
Given the tight restrictions on Vampires and Lycans and the way the mechs keep getting stronger and stronger, I think this is only fair. Again, it should only affect the mechs who are demonstrably overpowered beyond the intent of the sim. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
| Charles Noble |
| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 795
|
Solution 3 A.K.A the "final" solution
IC enforcement of the IC backdrop. Any moron can see that the build is very much "Blade Runner", ergo lets call in the Blade Runners at last.
Make Mech's IC illegal. Given the actions of some mechs in midian roleplay it wouldn't be long before the governmental organisations would crack down on artificial beings.
Why would artificial beings or semi human beings be treated as equals and given human rights in a dark dystopian regime that spawned organisations and military dictatorships like the UAC?
Of course there is no democracy, machines would be serviators or second class citizens and bad ones would be refused the right to exist. So bad ass super machines would thankfully be kept out of the lime light and pushed back into the shadows where they belong roleplaying with consenting individuals :p
Much like the supernaturals keep secret to avoid persecution so too would mecha's.
If they can't pass as human report them immediately to your local mpd or uac blade runner teams who will then come in equiped with mech busting equipment to render them null and void.
this would give super mechas a reason to play in the shadows rather than waltzing around like something out of a very very very very bad manga cartoon.
Of course consent overides all, but it won't be long before these people are rendered "ignored"
If the super mechs are not consenting to IC policing, then consent being the double edged sword means you too do not have to consent to playing to their ridiculous over powered asses.
Super mechs want people to acknowledge their "pwning" powers
Super mechs would have to acknowledge Blade Runner policing and mech busting equipment.
fair trade given that the mechs being complained about ARE the ones who never double check consent anyhow.
"Does u consent 2 I R superbot pwniness"
if you are "super combat powered" then you need to ask if people consent to "super combat" in the first freaking instance.
_________________
The above statements are opinions of the person behind the name "Charles Noble" these opinions may change over time, they may not agree with your opinon, that is the nature of opinions. Endevour to debate the "issue" not the "Person" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Stephan Nephilim |
| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: A Growing Concern |
|
|
Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Posts: 40
|
| Kiri Mayako wrote: |
Preface
Biomechs are the only group with superior abilities (or alleged superior abilities) who have no Masquerade-like restrictions on their powers. |
I would just like to add that this is not the case. I'm a profile reading whore when bored and I see alot of genetically enhanced 'normal' humans with a whole list of perfect skills and impossible feats and abilities.
I would propose Solution 4:
Have an example list of negatives associated with each enhancement, for example.
You want to be armor plated everywhere? You most likely loose any coordinated agility
You want sensors that can scan the full range of electromagnetic spectrum? expect to have trouble taking in everything you see like listenning to a crowded room.
Super powered hydrolic arms would be sensitive to precision cuts or bullet wounds that might break tubing.
And finally for these examples, unless you are built like a tank, I don't think EMP shielding should be allowed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Soap Clawtooth |
| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 128
|
I have noticed this too, someone said to me very early on, who is a biomech - 'Bullets wont affect me'. Haven't RP'd with him since.
When Biomechs join the remade, I insist that they 'remake' their avatar, this is to lose all that crap that is usually seen as godmodding because, frankly, I find it boring. The Remade are designed to be as crude, yet function, as possible.
I also have modifiers in my faction, for example if a Remade has a construction background and is possessed of great strength for the event of lifting heavy goods, the modifier goes to his speed, he becomes a slow, lumbering construct because of the sheer mass involved in having large pneumatic arms, or whatever. and so on and so forth.
When i see terms like 'heavily armoured' and then see them jumping from rooftop to rooftop, it makes me cringe. The same goes for 'heavy mechanical (insert appendage here)'. If you're HEAVILY armoured, or your appendages are heavy in nature, then the sheer weight of that - servos included - would keep you from being the next Cock Robin of the rooftops.
Catherine Saiman had a great idea.
Tech Certification.
Quite what she meant by this is somewhat abstract, but I took it to mean a list of tech that would be allowed and would not be allowed in midian, to be modified by the admins as and when new technology become available.
But, like I say, when I hear things like 'Regular Bullets wont affect me' it turns me off. And such people will not make it into my faction with that character.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Mr.Crispy |
| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 65
|
Last edited by Mr.Crispy on Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Mitchell Howlett |
| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 33
|
| Charles Noble wrote: |
Solution 3 A.K.A the "final" solution
IC enforcement of the IC backdrop. Any moron can see that the build is very much "Blade Runner", ergo lets call in the Blade Runners at last.
Make Mech's IC illegal. Given the actions of some mechs in midian roleplay it wouldn't be long before the governmental organisations would crack down on artificial beings.
Why would artificial beings or semi human beings be treated as equals and given human rights in a dark dystopian regime that spawned organisations and military dictatorships like the UAC?
Of course there is no democracy, machines would be serviators or second class citizens and bad ones would be refused the right to exist. So bad ass super machines would thankfully be kept out of the lime light and pushed back into the shadows where they belong roleplaying with consenting individuals :p
Much like the supernaturals keep secret to avoid persecution so too would mecha's.
If they can't pass as human report them immediately to your local mpd or uac blade runner teams who will then come in equiped with mech busting equipment to render them null and void.
this would give super mechas a reason to play in the shadows rather than waltzing around like something out of a very very very very bad manga cartoon.
Of course consent overides all, but it won't be long before these people are rendered "ignored"
If the super mechs are not consenting to IC policing, then consent being the double edged sword means you too do not have to consent to playing to their ridiculous over powered asses.
Super mechs want people to acknowledge their "pwning" powers
Super mechs would have to acknowledge Blade Runner policing and mech busting equipment.
fair trade given that the mechs being complained about ARE the ones who never double check consent anyhow.
"Does u consent 2 I R superbot pwniness"
if you are "super combat powered" then you need to ask if people consent to "super combat" in the first freaking instance. |
Ya know.. I actually Like this idea. Question. Can a Cyborg join up with the Runners? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Daedalus Fride |
| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 18
Location: MCMC
|
| Mr.Crispy wrote: |
I would like to say that the orginal posters problem is likely someone who CLAIMS to be a mech but obviously is NOT in the remade biomech faction group or the shadows group.
There are many who are in neither group and claim to have a multitude of enchancements cybernetic wise and lack any real downfall apparently.If it is someone in either group plz msg me personally cause id like to make sure you just arent crying needlessly cause this topic has been brought up COUNTLESS times before.And frankly it gets old.Its how you play the char and people who are totally without mechanical parts are some of the BIGGEST moders ive EVER rped with in midian. |
I believe the point is to be looking at the larger issue and to provide positive input.
I'd have to agree with Soap about Catherine's idea of Tech Certification listing. It would stand as something of a 'final word' regarding what we see in the city. I think it would also serve to clear up a great deal of problems regarding overpowered weapons and other such technology that greatly imbalances things.
_________________
MCMC, for all your medical needs!*
*offer void 1/1/2036 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Daedalus Fride |
| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 18
Location: MCMC
|
| Mitchell Howlett wrote: |
| Ya know.. I actually Like this idea. Question. Can a Cyborg join up with the Runners? |
You had to ask. 
I don't know if Deckard was one, but it would be a really interesting RP scenario if that really were to happen. Moreso if the 'blade runner' didn't know it.
_________________
MCMC, for all your medical needs!*
*offer void 1/1/2036 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Mr.Crispy |
| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 65
|
Last edited by Mr.Crispy on Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Debra Charron |
| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 420
Location: Trying to get the furniture to rezz in my apartment
|
I see some low-hanging fruit here so far as dealing with this is concerned;
01..Modders within Factions need to be dealt with by their Faction leadership.
02..Modders outside Factions (or recognised Groups) get dealt with by GMs
03..When you enounter someone whose idea of RP is tank-vs-tank combat - politely decline the RP for "power-level gap" and move along. After a while the person playing the Terminator Mk-XXX and not getting any play will "move along" themselves.
Note - I did not single out the mechs in my above statements. People who like to play on a surpassing power-level come in all shapes, flavors and Factions - but the original poster was correct in observing that the determining factor on the Mechs is that they had no real masquerade....no reason to be discreet. I'm hoping that the situation has changed - and I'm working overtime to maintain an open mind on the subject 
I'm a big fan of "arms control" in Midian, and ICly my character has a vested interest in seeing that happen. This is not because I take any sadistic glee in yanking a rug from under anyone's fun - but because the disparity in power-level was (prior to this) costing us good players who went elsewhere in search of a more level playing field.
My .02 cents
_________________
~Deb Charron
Audentes Fortuna Juvat (Fortune Favors the Bold)
BlackStar Military Services
Commander: Midian City Operations
Pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/debcharron/
Blog: http://debcharron.livejournal.com/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Rin Tae |
| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 150
Location: away from Midian but still alive (and eating cake)
|
Actually my opinion has always been, that especially military biomechs (as well as all the super soldier experiments outthere) should be very carefull about showing their abilities, since there would be the gov or some corporation that would love to get them back or to capture them to see what their rival corporation has done. So the idea of Blade Runner teams is a very very very very good one ... even if their job would be very hard too (also OOCly).
My thoughts on the biomechs have been, that of course, they would have the possibility of beeing very strong, but given that Midian is an island and that the channells from and to the city are limited, getting replacment parts would be so difficult, that even the strongest biomech would need to think twice before starting a fight (YAY! for the remade .. a more midian like biomech faction).
OOC certification of mechs is actually a very nice idea (but again lots of work) ... just like the breed has done with the vamps so it would be, that someone would not be allowed to paly a mech until he/she was allowed to do so. That would work better then a list of available tech since I think that such tech list would never be able to include all possibilites. A list of suggestions might work better. And I have also seen enough players who looked overpowered on paper but have not been it in the actuall RP, so in the end it´s not what you play or whoat you have that matters but what you do with it and how you are using it.
At least thats what I think after playing a biomech (never been a member of the faction) involved with high tech (Chimera labs) in the city for more or less a year.
_________________
well ... that should work |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Soap Clawtooth |
| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 128
|
Personally my char has enhancements to motion, vision and strength. none of which are at superman level. His strength lets him push open the odd locked door, or crush the odd ribcage, his speed allows for a hasty retreat or just that extra feet to a jump and his vision allows him insight into the sub spectrums that the organic eye can't see.
He has a standard pistol gun and he has a famethrower/sub-railgun. Now before you roll your eyes its not as drastic as it sounds. All the sub-railgun means is that the bullets are propelled by a blast of Electromagnetic energy rather than gunpowder to give them that extra armor piercing kick and disrupt technological shiny things for a few short minutes. It is in no way capable of killing a man despite the fact he is through two brick walls.
How did he get the subrailgun? It's easy. Many of his thaumaturges came from the mainland, some were even 'recruited' from the government during the war, they stole the plans for the weapon from the government and constructed a small number of them for use in their own protection.
Now since Railgun technology isn't at all outside the technological grasp of Real Life - as in - experimental railguns have been constructed in real life. Its not unreasonable to assume that the method of propelling a bullet using an EMP rather than gunpowder might be employed by people like the government in the years that follow.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Masha Eilde |
| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 356
|
All good thoughts - I love the Blade Runner idea too!
I think the only weapon I would find daunting enough for RP would be flame thrower, because, how do you FIGHT that? Whoosh, flame, burning, death. I know very little save what I've seen in movies - what do folks do when a baddie turns a freaking flamethrower on you?
Cheers!
-M
_________________
Masha's Diary
Masha's Flickr stream |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Atmlady Alcott |
| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 728
Location: Not in Pleasentville. It's just not nice there anymore.
|
| Masha Eilde wrote: |
All good thoughts - I love the Blade Runner idea too!
I think the only weapon I would find daunting enough for RP would be flame thrower, because, how do you FIGHT that? Whoosh, flame, burning, death. I know very little save what I've seen in movies - what do folks do when a baddie turns a freaking flamethrower on you?
Cheers!
-M |
If it happens in front of the Community Center, I get out the hot dogs and all the fixin's for "Smores", but then again, I love a good party 
I do agree Masha, from what I have seen a FLAMETHROWER is one bad weapon. Only way I can see to fight it is stand out of its range and SHOOT the operator.
_________________
"YES, I KNOW your life is full of "DRAMA", but sometimes you just have to put on your big girl panties and deal with things" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Deets Carroll |
| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 280
Location: According to this map, I'm over there somewhere.
|
| Masha Eilde wrote: |
| what do folks do when a baddie turns a freaking flamethrower on you? |
A flamethrower needs fuel under pressure, a lot of it, most commonly worn as a backpack, similar to a scuba tank. I'd be inclined to question the ability to shoot fire with no visible source of fuel, unless this ability is *extremely* limited. If the source of fuel is visible, my first choice would be to shoot the hell out of it before it was pointed at me |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
