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| Affrika |
 Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:11 pm Post subject: Combat |
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Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 58
Location: An Tir
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So yesterday we [a friend and i] had our first brush with an 'action' scene. It was not quite combat but could have very easily fell into that. I am more of a text based combat player than relying on weapons and button clicking. Wel come to find out that our style of reaction, action, making ready for counter action style is not the best in Midian.
I was curious if the academy had combat classes or if someone would be kind enough to kind of give me a detailed rundown on how combat works for the Midian sim.
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“The resistance of a woman is not always a proof of her virtue, but more frequently of her experience”
“Men lose more conquests by their own awkwardness than by any virtue in the woman.” |
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| Golyth Carillon |
| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 269
Location: Hapeville GA
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Everyone does it differently. I choose to RP out combat but I do wear a meter for large encounters. Now if some one would rather point and click at me then by all means expect to notify me first or I'll just treat you like some one how just bought a gun for the first time.
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"I do not need nor want your approval on how I should play my character. You don't have to RP with me and I don't have to RP with you. You didn't ask me permission to assume the seat of leader nor dictate how I should play my character." |
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| Charles Noble |
| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 795
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Huge thread on this.
If you would like an in character lesson drop by the horsemen sometime.
It's principal role is to teach emoted combat. However as gol said theres people that play their own way.
MCS is generally for "mass" combat but must be agreed upon.
It is also used for settling disputes when two characters don't put it out.
I think the problem is too many people see emoted combat as a competion and try to "win" oocly.
It's a text format, it's a flawed approach. The Idea of roleplaying with someone is because you like the way they roleplay. At the end of the day you should chose your combat partner in much the same way you would chose a sexual partner.. "they do it for you"
Have the same goals..i.e enjoyment of the scene, not "player vs player" combat. If you are going to have PVP combat may as well get a third unbiased party to "judge" if its just for the hell of the scene and seeing where it goes, then nothing further more is needed.
Of course there are rules..
Golden rules that come down to respect.
1. Give your opponent some respect in regard to their normal abilities.
2. Don't Auto.
3. Don't mode ((moding is where you pull everything short of a tatical nuke to avoid the blows))
4. Take some damage.
5. Stick to your commited moves ((if you throw a punch and it is blocked don't step back in time so you never threw the punch..and remember your position ...if you threw a punch from the shoulder and it is side steped, your arm is over extended, ditto with legs and head buts.. your post ends before impact... theirs starts with counter or taking a hit, you don't get to move till the next post, so if they move to grab your arm in your over extended position chances are they will at least succeed in a partial grab, to magically teleport your arm out of harms way from an over extended position in the short time involved in a fight is unlikely, try to understand distances involved , closer you are to an opponent harder it is to get a full field of vision and see whats coming.. for me a general rule is if they are closer than arms length its harder to dodge, if they are beyond arms length it's easier to dodge ,block etc..its we have biocular vison, all things in midian do, hense its harder to dodge things right in your face....))
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The above statements are opinions of the person behind the name "Charles Noble" these opinions may change over time, they may not agree with your opinon, that is the nature of opinions. Endevour to debate the "issue" not the "Person" |
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| Ayashe |
| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 07 Feb 2008
Posts: 17
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I was present for this ...
for a first combat it was not bad even if no one actually attacked anyone ... the only real comment i have on this is ...
He jumped down into a group of 6 armed people (yes even the dumb blonde staring at his ass was armed)) ... what could have helped it run a bit smoother was to establish a posting order ... something along the lines of ... A, B, Intruder, C, D, Intruder, E, F, Intruder ... Start over
Helps keeps things more organized and the Intruder has a chance to react to things happening |
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| Charles Noble |
| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 795
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yes posting orders are a must for multiple combats
otherwise its a cluster fuck.
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The above statements are opinions of the person behind the name "Charles Noble" these opinions may change over time, they may not agree with your opinon, that is the nature of opinions. Endevour to debate the "issue" not the "Person" |
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| ghandi |
| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 246
Location: Somewhere In The World
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| Charles Noble wrote: |
yes posting orders are a must for multiple combats
otherwise its a cluster fuck. |
Especially when there are some people that take 15 seconds to post something and others who take 4 minutes to post something that's just as long. The 4 minute guy is already going to be behind everyone else and sitting there wondering what heck they should respond to, if they should delete what they had written or just post something else anyways and make everyone else confuzzled.
*loves posting orders* Just glad I haven't had to be in situations where people don't naturally do that if the situation calls for it.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/ghandikamachi/ |
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| Oceania Goodliffe |
| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 732
Location: The Twilight Zone
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Example of combat gone astray with no posting order ...
O arrives to help one of her girls (A) on the beach (another guy (D) is already there (he goes unconscious real quick) and another one of her girls (De) shows up at same time) ... didn't post just moved to the beach to take in what was happening before posting
N is laying in the sand on his back trains a gun on O
before O posts
N stands up
O changes post before she hits enter
N starts shooting in front of him but doesn't move
O finishes post and hits enter ... she moved behind him and placed dagger at his throat
N posts at almost same time and then does ooc sorry too slow
This all happened pretty quick ... but at this point we went ooc and set posting order and it went a lot more smoothly
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Sometimes you don't need good to fight evil, you need a different kind of evil. |
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| theshadow |
| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 171
Location: US, PA
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As much as some people may not believe it...
During hand to hand training of kittens I'd teach things like: setting post order, group combat, taking into account friend and foe positions, keeping track of details (like whether someone is still holding someone else), keeping things done to no more than 2 actions per post, etc, etc...
We liked to make sure kittens would be able to fit right into any situation in Midian... |
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| J8 Skall |
| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:04 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 788
Location: God knows.....Follow the trail of blood
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/me points to the fuckload of threats on combat...
They are longlinded and full of arguements, but get a consensus of opinion across from many different perspectives.
You need to choose what works for you, and thaen try and find a happy medium when you meet someone with a different style, which will happen often, I mean even me and Charles have the same outlook on things, but I wouldn't obey his 'rules'. Eg I dont move my AV in combat, and prefer to say what I'm trying to do to clarify situations, than break things down into what I see as stacatto movements.
If two seemingly similar outlooks differ so much, you'll find in the city the styles contrast hugely, and it's not an exact science.
I suggest you simply make sure that that person is there for the right reasons, ie, not to auto/godmode/etc... Just have fun... Otherwise dont waste your time.
Then you start roelpalying, if a problem or concern pops up you smooth it out in IM. Take it as it comes, and fudge it together and you might click and have something great come out of it.
Can't really suggest more than that.
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Jay Skall
(All arguements [or discussion points] stated above are the player's opinion only, they are not truth from on high, the subversive whisperings of satan or the grunted rumblings of a troll... Incase you were struggling with the concept...) |
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| Marina Storaro |
| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:58 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 197
Location: Your location is no longer available. You have been moved to a nearby region.
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As far as RP classes go, as Charles said, come by the Four Horsemen, or also we'll be starting RP (OOC) 'classes' in the Fight Pit. Join the group (-Midian City- The Pit) and you'll receive announcements as to when they are or shoot me an IM.  |
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| Mordag McCallen |
| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:20 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 399
Location: Bunker
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Everyone says "there is a lot of text here about combat", so we might just as well point out where exactly:
http://midiancity.informe.com/viewtopic.php?t=289
Though I might give an advice on how to roleplay combat from different perspective.
First, look trough your faction, who seems like a gun/sword/any-other-pain-device freak, ask them a bit about those devices and find some refference on your weapon you are using on I-net. This is quite important step if you ask me, it prevents a lot of accusations of godmoding, when you have real refference to what weapons are able of.
Second, if you are unsure how to go trough combat, I found it generaly good idea to roleplay out training with some faction friend. My usual statement "I suck at combat, I am so fucked up." gets many friends started to kick my ass in training - which is good way to start, since own faction tends to be less bitch about combat adn are more ready to teach instead of just crying how bad you are.
And then it really comes down to each combatatnts prefference - I have my own style of posting combat text, faced many other style and in most cases we found just fine line to walk for both.
Basicaly there would be these things to remember:
It is not competition and in the end, it is no shame to clarify the outcome front in short IM, or asking "can I wipe floor with you now?" (or "can you wipe floor with me now, that would be a laugh") after some time of combat is trough. The winner of commbat situation is not winner as player, as in every case he was kindly allowed to win by the other player - because the one getting hit is the one deciding if he or she gets hit at all.
It is also not typing contest. Waiting for the other(s) to respond to your post is generaly bright idea. It is turn based and everyone should have a chance to use their part of the turn.
You may fuck with characters, but dont fuck with players. Yup, thats how it is. Respect the other player as any two adult beings should respect each other. This, unlike popular belief, also means that it is quite unpolite to try to fix dinner/car/wash your hair/play two other games simultaneously - while making the other one waiting for your response about five minutes or more every time. I, for one, am also telling friends who are IMing with me to hold on that I have tense situation here and that I will talk with them later not to waste the thing actualy happening.
Keep checking your IMs, there might be a lot of IMing from cobatants. It happens, but it is not nice when first answer to sniper firing at you is after an hour stating "lol, I am already elsewhere".
Keep in mind the time difference - real combat situation last usualy up to minute of real time, especialy with things like firearms. None the less it will probably take an hour of real time to do so. So when you are reacting from off-combat situation joining the fight, dont forget to take that into account.
Dont be the hero of the day when you arrive at scene, do not start emoting imediately based on what you see in front of you, either politely ask for copy+paste to IM of last 5 posts, or just skip turn or two to find out what the hell is actualy happening.
Last and still very important: Enjoy the game!
/me quits bitchin´
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 Cpt. Mordag McCallen, BEng(1), SrTech 1st class |
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| Charles Noble |
| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 795
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As for the "style" of combat, I can take a good four to five minutes to post a response, My opponent taking the slack will probablly take four to five minutes... sometimes 10. You can check I'M's after you have posted your text block, you've got bout five minutes at that time.
OOCLY the reason the horsemen exists is to teach "emoted" combat,in the basic sense, hense the weapons rules. I don't think you should be in gun fight or sword fight till you have the "basics" down.. If you mode in a combat I'll be the first to tell you.. I'm picky sure, but NOT so picky as to call on everything and anything.
Learn to fight WITHOUT weapons, tech enhancements etc FIRST.
Bassically when you are striped bare of enhancements and tech and mutations that are active in combat. You can then consentrate on the basics.
If you screw up the basics, you can't hope to expand beyond them..
Like i say horsemen is for teaching "basics" unfortunately everyones too scared to drop their super swords or super nano tech to have a "basic" brawl , which might teach them more in the long run than all the tech,weapon enhanced combat ever could.
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The above statements are opinions of the person behind the name "Charles Noble" these opinions may change over time, they may not agree with your opinon, that is the nature of opinions. Endevour to debate the "issue" not the "Person" |
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| Rin Tae |
| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 151
Location: around town
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| And if you plan to have some special ability etc. then think about it and try out with a friend how useable it is in a RP fight .. it helps to fine tune an ability to make sure, that it is not something causing problems later. |
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| Affrika |
| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 58
Location: An Tir
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| Ayashe wrote: |
I was present for this ...
for a first combat it was not bad even if no one actually attacked anyone ... the only real comment i have on this is ...
He jumped down into a group of 6 armed people (yes even the dumb blonde staring at his ass was armed)) ... what could have helped it run a bit smoother was to establish a posting order ... something along the lines of ... A, B, Intruder, C, D, Intruder, E, F, Intruder ... Start over
Helps keeps things more organized and the Intruder has a chance to react to things happening |
First this was not supposed to boil down to anything even remotely resembling combat. this was a scene where an item was being returned. Second when i asked my friend to come in so we could finish our scene i had no idea 6 people were going to thrust themselves into it. i had an hour to try and wrap up a scene that had been dragging on and on due to times zones and the like. we were trying to patient and not be rude and oocly tell people to bugger off (i hate doing that) -and- get the scene concluded so our rp cold move on.
I am sorry everyone had to get involved and their time was wasted. int he future i will make sure to pick a very out of the way spot to have personal confrontations.
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“The resistance of a woman is not always a proof of her virtue, but more frequently of her experience”
“Men lose more conquests by their own awkwardness than by any virtue in the woman.” |
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| Justice Razor |
| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 23
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| Charles Noble wrote: |
| Like i say horsemen is for teaching "basics" unfortunately everyones too scared to drop their super swords or super nano tech to have a "basic" brawl , which might teach them more in the long run than all the tech,weapon enhanced combat ever could. |
I always make it a point to stop by the 4 horsemen at some point every night (other stops are the record store and the book store). Nobody is ever there. When would be a good time to stop by the 4 horsemen?
I've technically only done combat once, and it was terrible. Lasted for one post, really. I didn't know it at the time, but looking back I definitely modded that scene (yes, I admit it, I was a stupid noob!). As it is, I avoid combat at every turn because I don't want to mess up like that again.
How do you snipe at somebody without modding? I mean, if you're on a rooftop with a high powered sniper rifle, or if you walk up behind somebody in a bar and shoot them while their back is turned they don't know you're there, so they can't really do anything. In tabletop games you give somebody a spot check. How is this done in Midian? Or is it simply not done because it's a limitation of the system? |
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