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| Existance of Vampires |
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| Lucca Staheli |
 Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 63
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| I really like Charles's idea about the vampire grou not being the faction, that really makes the most sense to be honest and I have soken with Chandra bout that myself making the actual faction the art society thing an then the nightbreed a sub faction...Similar to the Mercs and Blackstar. Because really the nightbreed shouldn't be some gang in the city they are apolicingbody for vampires plain and simple. I would have put this in my other post but I was posting as Charles made his post. |
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| Belial |
| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 19 Mar 2008
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| Charles Noble wrote: |
Agreed there should be consequences for breaking the masquarde.
However when it comes to Non Breed and Non Skinwalkers ((some people who come into the sim and do not read the rules about the secret natures of lycans and vampires and roleplay publically there is nothing that can be done about them, unless jade empowers the admin of those faction to boot and ban ((effectifely permakilling)) those newbies who break those rules))
When it comes to roleplayers of either of the two official factions then punishments are forthcoming they are just not "public" and they wouldn't be really when you think about it.
Chandra may well punish nightbreed who break the masque, but who would publically know really? I mean to publically punish a supernatural for publically showing their supernatural powers would just be another breech.
There is a lot of roleplay in midian I can attest to that is secret and hidden.
The reasons are because it is meant to be secret and hidden.
There are the odd instances when people meta. wear a group title and people automatically say" oh you are a vampire then or a hound, or an undercover cop, etc"
I'd really prefer that vampire powers on profiles be hidden from public.
I'd prefer it that these vampire powers were on a note card that was handed over to someone the moment they encountered the strange "power"
I would prefer the Nightbreed group was hidden from public and a "front" organisation made that consisted of both human and vampire. The "nightbreed" group itself only existing for the vampires.
It would alliviate a hell of a lot of meta. Vampires would be free to walk down the street with out people suddenly saying "I know you're a vampire" even when said vampire is "acting entirely human"
Of course it would make it harder for "leech bait" to find vampires too, but if there was a "leech bait" ooc interest group and the title was worn by people "genuinely" persuing that kind of rp, then that would solve it.
Prehaps the hard and nasty group could add a title that way an abuser may or may not be a vampire and so keep the mystique when persuing "leech bait" list. |
Charles, agreed, breaches should be handled in private, but what about those who've witnessed the breach? This is another level of depth to the RP, and an opportunity for some vamps to play outside of their clique. Now you have to find, hunt, and silence the person who witnessed the breach. However you choose to do that, it's still a great opportunity for some RP, no? |
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| Debra Charron |
| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 19 Sep 2007
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Location: Undisclosed
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| Lucca Staheli wrote: |
| I really like Charles's idea about the vampire grou not being the faction, that really makes the most sense to be honest and I have soken with Chandra bout that myself making the actual faction the art society thing an then the nightbreed a sub faction...Similar to the Mercs and Blackstar. Because really the nightbreed shouldn't be some gang in the city they are apolicingbody for vampires plain and simple. I would have put this in my other post but I was posting as Charles made his post. |
Having a more open "Farm Team" to feed the actual Faction seems to have been beneficial for Blackstar. They get to pick and choose after watching how the candidates actually do in play. I agree that this might be a good suggestion, but I'm not intimately acquainted with the workings of Vamp RP. Ultimately, its "whatever works for them".
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| Chandra Meehan |
| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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Location: Midian (Cementary - would love to rest in peace, but am not allowed to)
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Okay this post turned out to answer a few of Belial's questions cause he adressed the main issues...
| Belial wrote: |
| Because, again, this is all based on the actual game V-TM, they know that once a group of lycans discover them, it is not an IF, it is a WHEN they come to wipe out the whole coven. |
Taking this part to remark on first, cause it is the main and most important thing: MIDIAN vampire RP is NOT VtM. We took quite the long time to word that fact in the OOC Vampire Interest Group notecard in the city guide, trying to explain what's the deal with VtM and the sim.
(but I definitely do agree with you that - at least my char - would freak out about the Lycan cause I very strongly feel that vamps and lycans just shouldn't interact in any 'friendly' way.)
| Belial wrote: |
Currently, I feel there are absolutely no real consequences for breaking the Masquerade. The balance to this, IMO, is introducing some consequences. AKA, someone outing them. |
| Belial wrote: |
| Charles, agreed, breaches should be handled in private, but what about those who've witnessed the breach? This is another level of depth to the RP, and an opportunity for some vamps to play outside of their clique. Now you have to find, hunt, and silence the person who witnessed the breach. However you choose to do that, it's still a great opportunity for some RP, no? |
I do agree that it needs consequences... and.... *evilgrin* we worked out a wonderful IC punishment list for such cases depending on the gravity of the breach... But in any case, even if somebody feels they need to 'punish' the vampires instead themselves, then just again stick to the sim idea and get in touch with me about the plot you planned and we'll come up with something. Obviously then it is not enough to notecard 'I saw it I will kill you all' but rather something that can be used to build up a plot and include people into it. It's same like the war, something that needs to be GMed, so it is in my opinion only fair to at least announce it before it is used.
as for OOC consequences: we are currently in an observation phase, but the plan is similar to the skinwalker a final ban for blatant disregard of the simrules. And as much as I would prefer people to rather see the reason in the rules, the worst-case-scenario has been set up as well and we will have to enforce it if we want a change.
| Belial wrote: |
| A new Vampire Head has taken the throne, as it were, and perhaps she needs to clean house, that is her decision to make. |
Well let's reword it: Chandra took the throne a few months back, but as you all notice in this discussion, the issue is not easy and it took the core-group who worked on the ideas for how to treat the issue close to 6 months strict observation, and 4 of those gathering the ideas and 2 of those to actually word it and talk to all sorts of people in all factions all over the sim.
So really all I am asking for - on a personal level - is a chance to move towards what is wanted for the sim aside from personal interests. There have been A LOT of old-leftover-issues that we are slowly trying to tone down cause they created problems, and had quite the successes as well. So this should also be the place to thank those that were willing to adjust their characters to not overrun everybody (yes we had those as well who dropped some discipline levels and a few hundreds of years *smiles happily*).
| Belial wrote: |
| Of course new players who haven't bothered to read the rules, or don't care to play by them are a problem, but I think everyone is capable of discerning those problem children and ignoring them. |
And there we come again to the initial post I made: Look at 'who' brakes the mask, ignore it if they are new vamps and point it out to them OOC, and if you run into breaches by established vamps and you DO intent to use it, IM them as well or emote accordingly. One problem is with people being in chatranges, stopping for IMs and/or being afk you never have a clue who does what or why and what is used. So if you witness something, at least be considerent enough to emote something along the lines of 'that is odd' so that the vampire knows the deal as well.
| Belial wrote: |
| However, so long as everyone can just stick their tongue out and say "nope, you can't break the masquerade" regardless of the fact that someone ELSE has already done so in order for ANY non-vampire to know about them in the first place, then there's no reason for them to RP strict adherence to the rules. |
Again please keep in mind: The tightening of the rules now HAS occured as a reaction on the past. It was not an 'oh we always wanted to do that'. So just again, everybody be fair and just give these new rules a chance to get settled, sorted and established in everybody's mind before running havoc on the NightBreed and all other vampires.
We're here to have quality RP and for sure not to invent rules cause we are bored. And quality does involve a bit of awareness and finer sense of an issue as well. All we ask for!
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| Artika |
| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Belial wrote: |
Charles, agreed, breaches should be handled in private, but what about those who've witnessed the breach? This is another level of depth to the RP, and an opportunity for some vamps to play outside of their clique. Now you have to find, hunt, and silence the person who witnessed the breach. However you choose to do that, it's still a great opportunity for some RP, no? |
Another quick response to this idea, in fact that is exactly what happens. I can really only speak from the perspective of being in the Nightbreed faction, but after a breech in the Masquerade, in addition to (very nasty and secret) IC punishment as Chandra mentioned, the breed does its best to find those mortals involved and 'fix' the problem, such as with mind control, threats, and so on. Of course, when it occurs outside the faction, this might not be an option, but I really don't think there is too much 'cliquishness' with the Breed, at least I hope not. I try to get involved with players that are new to me if not new to Midian, and also it happens when the story takes you into contact with people you haven't met, as in the case you mention. Like you say, it is a great opportunity to RP. Again, a lot of the problems that have been mentioned come from other situations, such as using OOC knowledge to learn about vamps and so on (too many to list again.) There can be valid, IC breeches - vamps are not and shouldn't be played as perfect creatures who never make a mistake. But it should be rare and there should be serious IC consequences for everyone involved, at least in my opinion. |
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| ghandi |
| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Location: Somewhere In The World
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The thing about breaking the Masquerade is that those who are unaware of it aren't exactly willing to jump to the real conclusion either. It has been broken quite a few times in front of the Bangkok regulars and yet no one really thinks much of it. It is pretty decently known that there's some blood kept in stock solely for certain bitey people to drink when they feel like it. But the characters that do consume it, people already think are out there anyways, so drinking the stuff doesn't really lead to further questions.
Now if it became known that certain sophisticated parts of the population did so as well, that might actually bring up some more questions.
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| nekodui |
| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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| Dui laughs at anyone that says 'vampire', thinks they're all a bunch of goth wannabees that didn't get hugged enough as children. Hardly a day goes by that a new player doesn't come up to the sushi stand talking about vampires. The best I can do is to try to set the IC mood through RP... Vampires don't exist in Midian... anyone that claims to have seen them is a lunatic, and anyone that claims to be one is ridiculed. |
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| Rynard Benedict |
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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Location: Germany, North Rhine-Westphalia
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| Debra Charron wrote: |
Well, there are several factors that conspire to assist vampires in maintaining their masquerade;
01..The human capacity for self-deception. [...]
02..Technology outside Midian. The "Mainland" tech level is sufficently high to allow for the creation of "fetish vampires" [...]
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I stick with these, that's exactly what I think. Ryne hasn't seen any "vamp" (only one or another goth, streets are full of trash, himself included) nor he hasn't heard about them yet actually. Heck, I didn't even know OOC that "Jake" himself is involved in "vamp business" (or is it Lucca/another char? I've read your SL profile but didn't thought about much)
Someone could tell Ryne about vamps all day long, he would just shrug and probably lough except some "goth" is telling him this. True or not, a superstitious goth can be a threat like anyone else, especially with teeth implants. Though the whole nightbreed/vampire background is intrigueing me now, I guess Ryne will never really get close to it, since he's a sci-fi character, "real magic" is not a part of his world. You could bite his neck but he won't turn into a night creature or something else himself.
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| Jade Steele |
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Location: Midian City - Is there really anywhere else?
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| nekodui wrote: |
| Dui laughs at anyone that says 'vampire', thinks they're all a bunch of goth wannabees that didn't get hugged enough as children. Hardly a day goes by that a new player doesn't come up to the sushi stand talking about vampires. The best I can do is to try to set the IC mood through RP... Vampires don't exist in Midian... anyone that claims to have seen them is a lunatic, and anyone that claims to be one is ridiculed. |
In skimming through this thread I have seen several mention their approach to the situation is similar to the quote above. I think this is an excellent approach and is similar to what I had been considering posting here a few days ago.
Much like RL, if I were to witness some strange event or someone acting bizarre or even vampirish in some alley in RL, I would not instantly change my entire outlook and conclude, "Well by golly that does it! I guess vampires must exist!" Nor would I go around stating such things to others, less I appear a bit loopy myself. Instead if I were to witness something, I would likely think something along the lines of "wow what a psychotic freak-job ... mental note to self - stay away from that weirdo!!"
The same if someone were to come up to me and tell me they were a vampire. Much like nekodui said, I'd think "emo goth kid" etc, or like I said above, if they were doing something like drinking blood or trying to bite someone, it would be more along the lines of "psycho lunatic"
There will of course always be the superstitious, and I think that is okay, even beneficial to the RP. A large part of the history of Midian's story is based upon this superstition. But it is just that, superstition and not an common established fact.
I see the situation much like ghosts and UFO's in RL. There are many who will adamantly swear to their existence, there are those who firmly do not believe in them and others who are unsure. And while it is without a doubt that there are indeed some odd and unexplained things that occur from time to time, it does not instantly mean that it was an act of a ghost or UFO. Yet there will always be those who instantly draw that conclusion and will go around saying so, but that doesn't make it true. Much like how it seems "UFO'S" often like to pick Midwestern trailer park rednecks to conduct their experiments on, rather than Manhattan condo-living business executives - but it makes for great material for the tabloids and shows like Jerry Springer.
Just my two cents on the matter, and I hope it makes sense. I've been sick this week and am a bit groggy with cold/flu medicine right now 
Last edited by Jade Steele on Fri May 23, 2008 7:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| Atmlady Alcott |
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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Location: Not in Pleasentville. It's just not nice there anymore.
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| Jade Steele wrote: |
| nekodui wrote: |
| Dui laughs at anyone that says 'vampire', thinks they're all a bunch of goth wannabees that didn't get hugged enough as children. Hardly a day goes by that a new player doesn't come up to the sushi stand talking about vampires. The best I can do is to try to set the IC mood through RP... Vampires don't exist in Midian... anyone that claims to have seen them is a lunatic, and anyone that claims to be one is ridiculed. |
In skimming through this thread I have seen several mention their approach to the situation is similar to the quote above. I think this is an excellent approach and is similar to what I had been considering posting here a few days ago.
Much like RL, if I were to witness some strange event or someone acting bizarre or even vampirish in some alley in RL, I would not instantly change my entire outlook and conclude, "Well by golly that does it! I guess vampires must exist!" Nor would I go around stating such things to others, less I appear a bit loopy myself. Instead if I were to witness something, I would likely think something along the lines of "wow what a psychotic freak-job ... mental note to self - stay away from that weirdo!!"
The same if someone were to come up to me and tell me they were a vampire. Much like nekodui said, I'd think "emo goth kid" etc, or like I said above, if they were doing something like drinking blood or trying to bite someone, it would be more along the lines of "psycho lunatic"
There will of course always be the supersticious, and I think that is okay, even beneficial to the RP. A large part of the history of Midian's story is based upon this supersticion. But it is just that, supersticion and not an common established fact.
I see the situation much like ghosts and UFO's in RL. There are many who will adamantly swear to their existence, there are those who firmly do not believe in them and others who are unsure. And while it is without a doubt that there are indeed some odd and unexplained things that occur from time to time, it does not instantly mean that it was an act of a ghost or UFO. Yet there will always be those who instantly draw that conclusion and will go around saying so, but that doesn't make it true. Much like how it seems "UFO'S" often like to pick midwestern trailpark rednecks to conduct their experiments on, rather than Manhattan condo-living business executives - but it makes for great material for the tabloids and shows like Jerry Springer.
Just my two cents on the matter, and I hope it makes sense. I've been sick this week and am a bit groggy with cold/flu medicine right now |
This is the best approach, as frankly many things are said in Midian that just are not true.
I have heard about vampires in the city but know for a fact they don't exist.
Then there was that ridiculous OOC rumor about "Nessy sightings" in Midian but NO, I looked long and hard and never saw her.
I even heard some crazy rumor about a wacky lady in Midian who wears strange bright clothing. Now as long as I have been about, I will admit that some ladies here dress strangly but never anything I'd call weird.
Rumors, just rumors.
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| Father Eamon |
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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Location: St. Michael's Church, Midian City
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The parish's official stance on vamps and lycans: Superstitions.
I want to see the Masque maintained for atmospheric reasons. If everyone knew vamps (and for that matter, lycans) existed, it wouldn't be half as eerie. I never was a fan of books where vamps are known and semi-accepted members of society. Boring, mate. ;)
The only time I've run into a problem with vamps or hunters who break the Masque is when I react IC like they're off their chump and they start insisting OOC that I MUST believe them. Oi... no. I don't.
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| Charles Noble |
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Father Eamon wrote: |
If everyone knew vamps (and for that matter, lycans) existed, it wouldn't be half as eerie. I never was a fan of books where vamps are known and semi-accepted members of society. Boring, mate. ;)
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Gah, anita blake... horrid..... mills and boon of vampire books. |
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| AlegriaDagostino |
| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 240
Location: Mostly MPD. Chasing the Creepies. You know who you are.
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/me sits quietly in her office, SID team nearby, monitoring the conversation and smiling.
In case anyone wonders, and you know...probably not...the SID is the MPD's unit for handling vampires, lycans, and anything else super or preternatural. But even within the PD, they're not acknowledged, and choosing officers for the unit is a tricky thing. In essence, SID is the human side of keeping up the masq.
Ok no more OOC info or I'll have to kill you.
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| Collin Weder |
| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 05 Jun 2008
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I have read and heard many opinions on this issue, some very passionate while others not so much. Agreed a massive mainstream knowledge of vampires in the city wouldn't be so fun. But to make a rule that no matter what a human or any other species may not know about the undead is absolutely ridiculous. Take a look at Midian, it is a dark city with a lot of different people playing, naturally the cat is going to come out of the bag. You cant stop it no matter how many rules are in place, sim rules, IC rukes whatever it will be broken. Half of you fighting against allowing some people the knowledge of Vampires can't hardly say anything for they have either allowed someone in story, or have an alt that knows about them themselves. I used to play in Midian as Goliath Ryan, and those of you who used to play with me know i broke the masque numerous times, and all it did was increase the intensity and fun of the rp, afterall How are vampires to take human ghouls when humans cant know about vampires, or say a human does catch a messy feeding, how do you persuade them not to believe..to run off to spread the news of what they saw. Once i attacked the police station and broke the masque on purpose, the entire city was in arms, and I as being ushered into back meeting rooms to try and find a solution IC'ly to this security breach. And it was right there that I realized that Midian, be it a rp sim and a virtual city...was indeed a real city. With real emotions personalities and mind sets. That being said, I see no reason why vampires should have to always stay hidden no matter what on pain of death...cause in the end we are found out through reasonable manner and then we are punished. As well I`ve read that people are complaining because other humans search for vampires based on ooc knowledge of them. Well i see no issue with that because in every city you will have conspiracy theorists, people trying to find the unknown and the mythical, thats human nature. In closing, restricting the knowledge allowed in a character is like restricting their right to breath, its wrong and unlawful, thank you.
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| Affrika |
| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 28 Jan 2008
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Location: An Tir
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I for one happen to be on of those people who knows that vampires are out there. The knowledge and vampire lore background came in Tempest's back story. She knows what to look for from hand signals to watching intently for heartbeats and breathing patterns. All that aside she has also been taught by her former Masters (damn Giovanni!) a healthy respect for the Masquerade. Tempest knows that it is not only the vampire's ass on the line but hers as well. Once people start believing in vampires whats next? Ghosts? Werewolves? The Boogieman? The fact of the matter is the Masquerade is in place to protect humanity just as much as it is the vampires themselves. Humans are a whole are mistrusting, stupid, violent, and destructive. Hell even the Sabbat follows and loose set of rules when it comes to who kindred are and what they can do in the public eye.
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