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| Existance of Vampires |
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| Fenris Skall |
 Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 31
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I think the point is "predators" would not be acceptable in any society no matter how "politically correct" it was.A vampire or werewolf would not be deemed a species minority in need of protection and special compensations no more than than a paedophille or serial killer is granted special compensations. They would be seen as "humans" with "physical abnormalities that cause them to break societies laws" rather than "Humans with mental abnormalites that cause them to break societies laws"I don't see the "PC squad" saying society should make special compensations for serial killers "Sorry you must provide at least one victim in all hotels" or Paedophilles "All schools and adoption agencies should not discriminate against convicted paedophilles". That would be ludicrious. There are stories of convicted paedophilles getting jobs with children. The fact is these paedophilles were not checked by the school board, handed over false credentials or somehow the sytems was cheated. As it would be illegal to put a convicted paedophille in an employment place where it had direct contact with children. Much like it would probablly be illegal for a vampire to put in place it had direct contact with people.
Political correctness protects the gay/transgender/bi/lesbian community racial minorities, people with disabilities against hate crime, discrimination, and unfairness. It does not protect "Predators" no matter how anti pc a person is, they must realise that.PC has bad PR generally by the people who want to discriminate in the first place, but right or wrong is another topic. PC or not a society will not tolerate predators and they shouldn't. |
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| Belial |
| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:28 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 76
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| Belial wrote: |
| Edited to include cookies, llamas, midgets, and ice cream. |
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| Nikodemus |
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 21
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When I read all those nice posts, givgin reasons for both sides I wonder about one thing:
Midian is a city that is supposed to be in a post apocalyptic/realistic setting.
It is to be a "normal" world..dark and with higher technologie, yeah..but all in all rather..normal.
Why do people want to destroy that? Wouldn't it be in the interest of evry player in this town to kee it to this level, the intended city setting?
Else make a vote and try to convince Jade and the others to kick this all over and change the setting.
I've been in towns with vamps playing openly..and werewolves..demons..angels..etc.
I am in Midian CAUSE it's supposed to be a normal setting. Am sick of peeps UBERing themselves more and more to have a chance to survive.
Many complained about vampires and lycans being imbalanced. Well...masquerade is what balances it. The day it gets taken away I'll not hesitate to show mah claws and prove they can cut armor easily..yes..even metal. I dun think anyone feels like finding out what the more powerful vamps could do, not to speak of lycans.
All seems to have drifted off in a fight between vamps and non-vamps for knowledge and the base of RP. If this base gets screwed by over eager humans or vampires, that think telling others is necessary a (in my eyes) important piece of RP in Midian would be seriously endangered.
..But instead we should see that we're in the same city with a lovely setting and should together care for it remain such...and not try to kick off others RP for egoistic reasons. |
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| Mr.Crispy |
| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:06 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 65
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I personally think the vtm stuff is overdone lol Cutting metal with something organic doesnt even make sense in the slightest. Its basically a way to exhaust the vampire mythos with nonsense trying to make it more unique then it is. Vampires are undead, they drink blood, and they are sick son of a bitches  There is no playing out a nice vamp in my opinion cause your very existance is a blasphemy to anything holy(basically evil) And various categories yes can be interesting to an extent but ive read through it and it is entirely crazy to play out those abilities in midian..Shadow tentacles and abstract powers from the darkness really cant be played out in anyway without being overpowered.Although id alow it for my char just to be interesting..
Also like to say i think the vampires we have in midian are way too soft character wise from what i seen, not in physical abilities.. |
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| AlegriaDagostino |
| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 117
Location: Mostly MPD. Chasing the Creepies. You know who you are.
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Having a recently approved vampire character alt, I have to agree with ye old Crispy one on this. At the risk of angering my dear dear top 'o the vampire heap friends, I have to say that I can agree with some of the arguments against the masq (even if my human character has a whole unit dedicated in part to upholding it). Where's the fun of playing a vampire, who think themselves superior to humans, in a place where you can't really exhibit that? Nice vampires are like houselycans. Housebroken and all. "Nonono, you may not munch on our guests!" *thwaps nose with newspaper*
Not going to start any movements to change the way things are, just havin' an opinion.
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| Artika |
| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| *blinks* We have nice vampires? Well, there is the public face that some vampires present to the world, and then the manipulative games and feeding goes on behind closed doors and is often forgotten or only vaguely remembered by the participant (other than the vampire of course). Not saying that you don't have a valid point as well, but it would be something for you to think about LOL. The nicer they appear on the outside, the easier to put victims at ease and then... |
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| Nikodemus |
| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 21 Feb 2008
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Well..I can say for my part:
Niko AIN'T nice.
Niko's superior than a human.
Niko keeps the masq up as well as possible.
And it's fun. I have to think of other ways to do stuff than jus being uber. Why wonder whats fun in playing a vamp that hardly SHOWS he's superior, when others mainly complain that "all vamps are sooo UBER and it ain't no fun at all to RP with those godmodders" (quote end)
The secret about power is not to have to use it. And if Niko'd not be undead he'd be totally different...you CAN act uber as vampire...he got "killed" maybe 4 times..always disguised..and two days later he walks Midian streets like the all innocent citizen he pretends to be to those after his ass.
It's a challenge...and thats what RP mainly is for..to challenge oneself with a situation thats different from ones RL and to play a different person than oneself in it..and vampires under the masq are a great example for that and wonderful RP if one accepts that role.
For all that jus wanna be UBER vamps: Go to City of Lost Angels
They are in the open there. And in fact...it's boring. I did it for a long time...and it's boring. (not the whole city or community, NO..but vamps RP)
I like when there are spots in the settings that cause conflicts..cause those create RP. The masq is such a spot. Take it away and ye lost a great option...when opportunities ye got without the masq? I've seen hardly any around vamps RP but peeps shooting eachother down again and again to see who'll stand longer...nah..that ain't RP. |
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| Aegyptia Elvehjem |
| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007
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Location: incognito or Bangkok Records
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Hmm, nice? Read up on Setites if you want to understand more about what KAOS is up to...it ain't nice and has required zero uber abilities. But Pera is an angel, she means no one any harm....really. ;p *dons halo*
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| Belial |
| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 76
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Niko, I agree, the Masq is what makes having vampys FUN. The cloak and dagger, backalley workings of it are intriguing, and do good stuff for RP.
The origin of this post wasn't so much about blowing the Masq wide open as it was about being able to realistically play in Midian. If a vamp breaks the masq, IMO, the rest of the vampires should come down on them like the wrath of the gods. THEY should work diligently to assure that no one finds out about their existence, not rely on everyone else to do so for them, ya know?
Had that article been published I knew full well that I would become hunted, but in fairness, the one who broke the masq should have been even moreso, no? To me, the fun in vampy's is that even if the article was published, no one would have believed it, and the vamps would have a choice: make this guy disappear, which just MIGHT get people wondering what nerve he'd struck, or work it out another way...
I just thought it would open a lot of RP up for everyone involved, at the end of the storyline, who would really believe in vampires anyway? You'd have to be a whacko for that... |
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| Mr.Crispy |
| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 65
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| Aegyptia Elvehjem wrote: |
| Hmm, nice? Read up on Setites if you want to understand more about what KAOS is up to...it ain't nice and has required zero uber abilities. But Pera is an angel, she means no one any harm....really. ;p *dons halo* |
Oh rly well ill check it out ;P |
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| Charles Noble |
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:15 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 795
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I just don't get "Why" some of the vampire disciplines exist.
Overpowering prey with strength/speed/ resistance to damage check..that makes sense from an evolution point of view.
Overpowering some weak minded peoples minds with domination/mind wiping etc again makes sense...
Rather rapid healing from damage sustained again.. makes some kind of sense ....
reshaping peoples bodies and some of the more bizare disciplines....er... pointless and over indulgent.. not to criticise white wolf publishing for being fucking idiots coming up with powers that if naturally evolving would be pointless.... but yeah it is kinda pointless... it's like having the ability to organise pebbles by order of size with a click of the finger.... a pointless ability..and naturally occuring HOW????? like somewhere down the linage of vampires one was constantly thwarted with people looking somewhat normal so developed a power to reshape their body........ why did that power develop naturally? makes absolutely no sense.
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| Beatz |
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:27 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 69
Location: Docks. Nope, i'm not a fisher.
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| Charles Noble wrote: |
I just don't get "Why" some of the vampire disciplines exist.
Overpowering prey with strength/speed/ resistance to damage check..that makes sense from an evolution point of view.
Overpowering some weak minded peoples minds with domination/mind wiping etc again makes sense...
Rather rapid healing from damage sustained again.. makes some kind of sense ....
reshaping peoples bodies and some of the more bizare disciplines....er... pointless and over indulgent.. not to criticise white wolf publishing for being fucking idiots coming up with powers that if naturally evolving would be pointless.... but yeah it is kinda pointless... it's like having the ability to organise pebbles by order of size with a click of the finger.... a pointless ability..and naturally occuring HOW????? like somewhere down the linage of vampires one was constantly thwarted with people looking somewhat normal so developed a power to reshape their body........ why did that power develop naturally? makes absolutely no sense. |
well actually reading here and there in some manuals, turns out that the vicissitudine discipline, is more a sort of virus from some kind of other dimension that developes in the host (the vampire) granting him those skills, while getting control over him.
i think it is in the book about the black hand, might be wrong tho, i have it somewhere
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| Soap Clawtooth |
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:11 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 130
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It has become my understanding of the rules as per V2.1 that while it is 'requested' that the existence of vampires remain a secret, there is nothing in place to actually forbid a character learning of their existence as the result of some situation or other.
To illustrate, if someone were to be attacked by a vampire in the typical way, it is only natural for the attacked to come to comprehend that they were attacked by a vampire. Now your Character would have be some new kind of slow to accept the fact that your man is pale and cold and clammy because he rarely gets out of the house, or his air conditioning is broken or whatever.
Plus there are other factors involved. IE: people from other cultures and countries. Just because vampires are not public knowledge in Midian, this does not preclude the possibility that Vampires may have become public knowledge elsewhere in the world for some reason or other, either by the Vampire's own choosing or through various other concerns.
Also, to any descent bioscanner on any descent biomech (possible medical in nature) even a cursory scan *hypothetically* would reveal that the vampire (by happenstance) had no vital signs and yet was still walking around, but did not appear to be machine in any way. This would naturally spark curiosity. To say 'oh but we just ignore this bit,' is complete rubbish.
So while the character may very well come to learn of the existence of vampires, what he CHOOSES to do with that knowledge (and it is the general request that the knowledge not be made public) that should be the concern of the masquerade. Not generally the gleaning of such knowledge in the first place.
Otherwise if nobody may learn of the existence of vampires or RP their existence and if you must 'mask' the situation IC if and when you happen to come into contact with one outside all realms of being able to dismiss it as something else (which ruins the RP), then what is the point of having the faction at all? |
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| Johnny |
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:27 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 17
Location: CW Den, humping teh Adri
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| Soap Clawtooth wrote: |
It has become my understanding of the rules as per V2.1 that while it is 'requested' that the existence of vampires remain a secret, there is nothing in place to actually forbid a character learning of their existence as the result of some situation or other.
To illustrate, if someone were to be attacked by a vampire in the typical way, it is only natural for the attacked to come to comprehend that they were attacked by a vampire. Now your Character would have be some new kind of slow to accept the fact that your man is pale and cold and clammy because he rarely gets out of the house, or his air conditioning is broken or whatever.
Plus there are other factors involved. IE: people from other cultures and countries. Just because vampires are not public knowledge in Midian, this does not preclude the possibility that Vampires may have become public knowledge elsewhere in the world for some reason or other, either by the Vampire's own choosing or through various other concerns.
Also, to any descent bioscanner on any descent biomech (possible medical in nature) even a cursory scan *hypothetically* would reveal that the vampire (by happenstance) had no vital signs and yet was still walking around, but did not appear to be machine in any way. This would naturally spark curiosity. To say 'oh but we just ignore this bit,' is complete rubbish.
So while the character may very well come to learn of the existence of vampires, what he CHOOSES to do with that knowledge (and it is the general request that the knowledge not be made public) that should be the concern of the masquerade. Not generally the gleaning of such knowledge in the first place.
Otherwise if nobody may learn of the existence of vampires or RP their existence and if you must 'mask' the situation IC if and when you happen to come into contact with one outside all realms of being able to dismiss it as something else (which ruins the RP), then what is the point of having the faction at all? |
Lemme tackle your post one paragraph at a time 
1. No, theres nothing in the rules that forbids learning of them, only for those normies that know to not brag, for fear of vamp crackdown on them.
2. Most vamps are actualy quite creative, for example, one of my alts is a Ventrue, and thus, usualy keeps his victims under his influence, and afterwards replaces the time they spent with a false memory. And for clans that can't do that, theres still not a 100% chance the person will go "I got eated on!", theres a very good chance that they could be to traumatized by the experience to actualy recall the events, most likely settling that they were raped or drugged.
3. on the medical scan part, vamps can actualy, by burning off blood, keep their body temp and vital signs the same as anyone normal, something my vamp alt often does when in the company of normal people. Which is also downsided by the fact that he needs to feed a bit more frequently due to the blood used.
4. he's free to do what he will, but if he has a understanding of how volatile a situation he's in, he'll keep it quiet.
5. the last one here can be answered in a fairly simple way, Midian is NOT a sim revolving around Vamp RP, that information becoming public would be HORRIBLE for both communities. And the point of most vamp's RP is to keep what they are a secret from the public.. and try to operate without others finding out
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| Soap Clawtooth |
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:54 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 130
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1) Yeah I guessed as much.
2)My example was just a generalisation
3)I happen to already have known that. But also know that it is only largely
done when the vampire knows he is under scrutiny. I wont begin to tell
the trillions of countless other ways a medical scan could reveal a lack of
vitals from a potential vampire.
4)Yeah so it's not a vampire RP. But the fact remains that you DO have
vampires. You can realistically expect vampires to be able to roam the
streets of Midian without some character learning of their existence
through some means or other.
Besides, where is the evidence to support the claim that vamps being
public knowledge would be horrible? I think this places little faith in the
RP skills of the Midian citizens as you clearly think that once vamps are
public knowledge everyone will go around buying garlic and crosses
where realistically this may not be the case at all.
Also, where it being public knowledge may ruin things, public
SPECUALATION, on the other hand, is an entirely different matter.
There's nothing wrong with the odd urban legend about what
'some say' exist in Midian without it actually ruining the masque at all. |
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