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| Sarika Zenovka |
 Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:34 pm Post subject: How long is an RP combat turn? |
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Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 5
Location: Sari-Mart
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Yeah, another thread, but...
Okay, here goes.
I'm curious as to what you guys think about combat and non-combat turns in regards to time passing. I tend to go with a somewhat shorter amount of time, favoring a well described few seconds of movement, gunfire, etc.. while others tend to make it much, much longer.
I personally break my turn down via a system akin to pen and paper games such as Shadowrun or AD&D. Snapping off a shot while moving, sacrificing aim for mobility, or vise versa, taking a solid well aimed shot and perhaps opening myself up to an attack. One complex action / two moderate actions / a number of simple actions. Just my personal preference.
As an example, say I'm in a gunfight where I had fired a three round burst for cover fire while taking a step to the left. The person next in line empties both clips of their handguns at me, then walks around a whole building to come up behind me.
Should I make my turn longer to compensate for their large turn or politely ask them to tone their turn down? Perhaps work out a middle-ground?
I know making standards for RP doesn't tend to work due to the vast amount of different play-styles and character types, but I think it might be something to at least get a broader view of for the benefit of all involved. |
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| MarkkoOndricek |
| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: How long is an RP combat turn? |
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Joined: 30 Jul 2007
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Location: you will see me if I let you
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| Sarika Zenovka wrote: |
...Okay, here goes.
I'm curious as to what you guys think about combat and non-combat turns in regards to time passing. I tend to go with a somewhat shorter amount of time, favoring a well described few seconds of movement, gunfire, etc.. while others tend to make it much, much longer.
I personally break my turn down via a system akin to pen and paper games such as Shadowrun or AD&D. Snapping off a shot while moving, sacrificing aim for mobility, or vise versa, taking a solid wel aimed shot and perhaps opening myself up to an attack. One complex action / two moderate actions / a number of simple actions. Just my personal preference.
As an example, say I'm in a gunfight where I had fired a three round burst for cover fire while taking a step to the left. The person next in line empties both clips of their handguns at me, then walks around a whole building to come up behind me.
Should I make my turn longer to compensate for their large turn or politely ask them to tone their turn down? Perhaps work out a middle-ground?
I know making standards for RP doesn't tend to work due to the vast amount of different play-styles and character types, but I think it might be something to at least get a broader view of. |
I am with the asking a person to slow down a bit, I mean, people react, in split seconds and withing seconds, so why not give them the benefit of the doubt to be able to.
I think a real time reaction of of only a few seconds should be part of an RP turn, a movement with an attack or defend, just as you would with pen and paper.
I may be rash, but i think emptying two magazines with convetional weapons is highly unlikely then adding the 20-30 seconds or more to walk around a building is a bit far fetched. What happened if you followed, or turned around, before they got there. A proper amount of reaction time given, its just about playing fair.
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| Lindsay Noonan |
| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Mar 2007
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Location: look up, you'll see me if I want you to
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I've always taken the view that a combat round was 3-4 seconds and only actions that could be legitimately performed in that amount of time were valid. I actually -am- familiar with the Shadowrun system and am sad that I don't have access to it as a reference anymore because their breakdown of actions actually seemed to make a great deal of sense to me the few times I did get to play in my brother's game.
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| J8 Skall |
| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Mar 2007
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Location: God knows.....Follow the trail of blood
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I vary it depending on situation, but usually its 2-5 seconds... Ofcourse if the action is walking away, or doing something time consuming, I rolplay a very obvious attempt to do it, and if noone interfears assume it is done, but I will always state if I'm trying to do something, or trying to start to do soemthing, or any variation on the time.
Really I see it in a state of flux to keep the roleplay moving, but fair, I try and have an IM open with people though, and just clarify intent, eg, if its okay to go ahead and post something rather detailed, of if characters are still 'in' a scene.
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| Charles Noble |
| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 18 Feb 2007
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I'd say restrict "Actions" to a quantative rather than a time.
I.E it takes about a second or less to throw a punch and less than a second to side step or turn your cheek or something.
Just reduce the number of "hand to hand/melee" actions in a post to
one aggressive, one defensive, one move or something.. generally no one should be able to throw three punches at different locations because the other party may stop the first punch, grab the arm stopping the subsequent two,
so just keep the number of actions down to a basic.
if the person you roleplaying with throws twenty punches at you, then technically they have auto'd the first 19 |
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| Mordag McCallen |
| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 15 Jan 2008
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Location: Bunker
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It is pretty much the Shadowrun system too you are talking about Charles.
Its exactly the complex action as stated by Sarika.
In real combat situation it is very common to counter enemy atack and atack yourself "in the same turn".
Shadowrun system is quite perfect for my style and I am only enriching it a bit by intention, which I think helps picturing the situation properly.
So it is the same for me: 1 active action ( hand to hand atack, reload (that actualy take more turns in my case (drop empty mag, reach for new one, press it in, get bullet into chamber), but I am usualy adjusting to oponent´s style.))2 passive actions (run few steps, dodge, duck down) and intention of my actions.
That obviously has no set time, guess gotta use brain to make it sync.
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| Calee Lykin |
| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 12 Feb 2008
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Location: Midian City
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Not sure if I'll be able to word this to make sense to others, but this is how I view a round of fighting RP (though it does also translate to other in depth RPs as well). How the time figures into it, not entirely sure, because while each post can take anywhere from two to ten minutes, most of the actions would actually be occuring at the roughly the same time as the other person's. Generally, depending upon the attack that was made upon me, one or two defensive actions, dodging, ducking, spinning, trying to deflect, etc. Followed by one or two active actions, hitting, kicking, biting, trying to get away, etc. If my character is trying to get away, then it will be their last action they take in that round, though I will generally add something to say what they would be doing next if successful, for example if Caleeis trying to get out of close quarters so that she can turn around in her next post to pounce the person, I'd word it that she would be getting ready to pounce, versus if she were trying to get away to actually get away, she'd be preparing to run off. I figure this would be noticable to some extent to the other person, as the follow through of the shove (or however else she was trying to get away) would be different dependent on the situation and intent. Also it gives the person she is fighting with a better understanding of what is going on, and therefor they can react better.
On a side note, unless she drew a weapon before the fight actually began, I would think that it would take at least two active actions to do it, reaching down to grab it takes just as long as punching someone, in my opinion, and then pulling it out of the sheath would be another action, actually using it would be a third. And of course, Calee doesn't use guns, so that is targeted at using daggers. I don't use a weapon in the same round it was brought into the scene, I prefer to give the other person a chance to respond to its existence first. Guns, I would think, would take longer, and reloading during a fight, I would presume to be rather difficult and drawn out, especially in a melee fight, because if you're concentrating on finding a new clip and loading it, you can't really pay attention to what is happening (potentially to you) in the fight.
Natural weapons obviously are a bit different, but when one fights a cat they (I would think) expect there to be claws and teeth involved.
Anyway, that is just my opinion, and how I tend to do things. ;)
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| Belial |
| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 76
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I don't know how many of you play a TT RPG, so I'll explain what I mean instead of just tossing it out there.
In AD&D things are broken down into rounds, rounds are within turns, a turn is one minute, a round a few seconds. Rounds a broken into segments, and ONE persons turn is within ONE segment of the round. Other TT games use the same system, but use different names.
A round is roughly 6 seconds(Ten rounds in one turn/Minute). The concept, I believe, is that you're not just going to punch/shoot/stab/dodge in one round, because you have to also set that action up. Your opponent isn't just sitting still, so you don't just stab, you have to circle and feint, parry etc, before you see a presentable opening.
In one round you can do a single action, then a few small things. For instance, you can move ONE step and take an action, but that's it, you can't run halfway down the block, then pull off a ninja kick, read half a novel, and call your friends for backup on your cell phone. You could, for instance, draw your gun and aim, then fire on the next round. Changing/drawing a weapon takes your action, any movement more than one step takes your action, though you can toss off inaccurate shots while moving.
There's also something called Initiative. This, basically, establishes a posting order. I offered to write a script to help establish initiative when I first got to Midian, but was told no one would accept it. However, the person who said that has left Midian, so perhaps I will suggest it again...? I'm still new to LSL, so if everyone is interested it might take me a while to get it working in this language. |
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| ginseng_kyong |
| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 28
Location: catwalks
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The way I envision what can be done in a post of combat is much like what is posted in a conversation.
Combat is just a conversation, the moment someone starts doing multiple physical actions, that is more like a speech, then you have to wonder who they are interacting with.
Fun combat involves more than just a physical action, there is a lot more that can and should be added to the post, a sound, an emotion, a few words to your opponent, the reaction of agony of trying to stand on a leg that just got. Some of the more fun combat scenes to listen to involve a lot more details than the actual combat being performed.
(Come to think of it, combat might be easier compared to the sex act, if person A does too many actions without letting person B react to them, then person A cums and never has sex again once word gets around) |
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| nekodui |
| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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| ginseng_kyong wrote: |
| (Come to think of it, combat might be easier compared to the sex act, if person A does too many actions without letting person B react to them, then person A cums and never has sex again once word gets around) |
HA!!! Finally an analogy that makes sense! |
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| Debra Charron |
| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 329
Location: Trying to get the furniture to rezz in my apartment
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IMO a single combat action post should emcompass about2 seconds worth of action. That might mean;
I draw a weapon and click the safety off (pull a grenade and thumb the safety clip)
I aim a weapon for accurate fire (pull a pin on a grenade and assume the "throw" position)
I fire a weapon (I chuck my grenade and hit the deck)
I drop an empty magazine and extract a full one from my harness
I slap a full magazine in the chamber of my weapon and charge it for firing
I go full defensive in melee and get missed or take a minimal hit
I go offenseive/defensive in melee and *may* hit and *may* be hit myself for slight to moderate damage (if opponent consents)
I go full offensive in melee and either enhance the chances of a hit or optimise damage (*if* my opponent calls a hit and consents)
I take one walking step and either go defensive or offensive w/o compromising accuracy. (I can triple this if I give up my option of attacking)
I take three running steps and RP a decrease in accuracy (I can triple this if I give up my option of attacking)
I can climb a ladder 3' vertical and either attack or defend badly (I can double this if I give up my option of attacking/defending)
I can drop prone
I can brace against an object to (a) gain some cover and (b) add to my RP'd accuracy for shooting
I make a short, pithy comment or give about 2 seconds worth of instructions over the radio (can be done while attacking or defending badly)
Accept my opponent's surrender or grin at their backsides as they flee in abject terror
This could go on and on, but you get the idea
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| Satomi Ashbourne |
| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 108
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Since I know too much about this sort of crap, here's the current D&D 3.5e list of actions and how long they take:
1. Full Round Action: Takes 6 seconds
2. Move Action: Takes ~2.5 seconds
3. Standard / Attack Action: ~3.5 seconds
4. Swift Action: May be performed once/turn at any point during your turn
5. Immediate Action: Like a swift action, but may be performed NOT during your turn. These should be used infrequently, since they confuse the crap out of people (I'd say this only applies to firing a previously-aligned shot).
6. Readied Action: Sacrifice your initiative to act either when a condition is fulfilled or when your initiative returns. Note that you must renew the readied action each turn: "Satomi Ashbourne keeps her rifle trained on the door, waiting for Mordag to show her evil face." ((sorry Mordag, but demanding payment from Kadra for what she stole? That's just *mean*))
7. Free Action: Speaking, etc. The time cost is negligible, unless you're being really verbose.
I'm forgetting some, but it's not even 8:00 in the morning, and I'm still asleep.
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| Ixion Laperriere |
| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 03 Oct 2007
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Does this mean that I need to suffer an attack of opportunity every time I want to initiate a grapple?
Since Midian is a descriptive dialog I try to describe about 2 seconds of fight time. 6 seconds is a life time in a fight. Usually however, as you interact with the people in the fight you tend to unconsciously come to a consensus.
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| Charles Noble |
| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 749
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I do think this is getting "too" analitical, theres a degree of freedom, the rules shouldn't be so laid down as to make the game "Oh sorry did I forget to carry the one?"
A few "Simple" guidelines should surfice
Bassically one defence and one attack per post even "with" multiple opponents attacking you.
the reason? in reality you don't get to defend against "each" opponent, you have to make a generic defence that affects them "all"
so for example
A. Throws a Punch at C.
B. Who is standing behind C. attempts to clober C from behind.
C. Ducks down as A throws the punch , hoping B will get hit by A, and that maybe B will end up clobering A accidently too..... See... one defence..
or c could have been hit by A and taking the damage, but flew backwards with the momentum of A's hit into C. Or could have avoided the punch from A but still end up clobered by C.
So for fairness sakes when ganging up on an opponent, make sure there is no more than 3 posts for them to respond to.... if there are more than 3 people attacking one person... then you'll have to break it into mini rounds... 1,2,3 ((me)) 4,5,6 ((me)) 1,2,3 ((me))
as yeah, 3 people at a time is realistically all you can actually physically fit on a person anyhow, any more than 3 it's just a dog pile and all you are doing is crushing.
You certiantly can not do 6 people attacking a standing person simultanously, as the other people in your own gang tend to fill the space, making any attempt a lazy reach..
whish i could illustrate it with a birds eye view..
but yeah i know what i'm talking bout.
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| Cennedi |
| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 7:17 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 29 Feb 2008
Posts: 6
Location: *looks around* you don't wanna know...
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| One of hte most irritating things I've ever seen is when you're Rping actions that take maybe a 5 second period of time, but the person you're Rping with suddenly posts like six actions at once and by the end of his post, hes run down the street out of sight after beign shot, stabbed, hit the ground, and got back up again. I MEAN COME ON! |
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