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| Golyth Carillon |
 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:02 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 274
Location: Hapeville GA
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I agree with Auntie because the one simple fact remains is that Second Life is the work horse of Linden Labs. Do I support the age verification? Hell no and it mostly comes from the fact that probably 60%+ users of SL are outside the US and will have a pain in the ass time confirming thier identity and also the fact that we will have to not only provide "vital" information to Linden Labs and thier 3rd party company but we will have to pay for the verification as well. None the less LL has given island owners and parcel owners the ability to turn of the "Age" checking portion of thier lands/islands. I for one hope and pray this will weed out the people who have cheated and "hacked" thier way into Adult SL.
Just my 2cp worth *smiles*
_________________
"If I was a peanut and your were some butter... I'd eat your soul, set your corpse a flame, laugh at you for a few hours and then put your toasted ass out with whiped cream and at the end of it all.. we'd both be eaten by a fat kid named Phil..." |
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| Charles Noble |
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:07 am Post subject: |
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but the fact is, a minor breaking the law is still breaking the law and accountable for their actions.
I actually looked at the age verification beta page and its ridiculous.
It's just another document/number that any kid can find in their parents house and use.
oh gee, the kid already stole the credit card number to get payment verified, its gonna be impossible for them to find the passport or social security number too right?
All this is doing is making linden lab say "Ha ha ha there, it is impossible for minors to be on our grid"... when actually its not...
Now there is false advertising, there is where linden lab actually makes it'self ACCOUNTABLE/LIBEL for any incidents involving minors...
when all they need is a nice disclaimer saying... objects in the rear view mirror may be younger than they appear....
or the nice one... click here if it is legal for you to view this content in your country and you are over 18+.. lots of sims now do that .... and you know what... thats all the verification you need... cuz it don't matter if kid entered parents passport number , or if kid clicked a check box that said he /she was old enough... they still lied, they still broke the law... THEY and their PARENTS are still lible. |
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| Golyth Carillon |
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:12 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 274
Location: Hapeville GA
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Exactly my point about the whole system LL is putting in place Charles. Don't even need to mention all the faked Korean SS numbers kids used to get into other MMO's that they couldn't play in the states. Companies more and more these days are treating consumers like we're all stupid. You can only dress up and rename something so many times before it falls apart in your hands.
_________________
"If I was a peanut and your were some butter... I'd eat your soul, set your corpse a flame, laugh at you for a few hours and then put your toasted ass out with whiped cream and at the end of it all.. we'd both be eaten by a fat kid named Phil..." |
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| Atmlady Alcott |
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:21 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 789
Location: Not in Pleasentville. It's just not nice there anymore.
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| Charles Noble wrote: |
but the fact is, a minor breaking the law is still breaking the law and accountable for their actions.
I actually looked at the age verification beta page and its ridiculous.
It's just another document/number that any kid can find in their parents house and use.
oh gee, the kid already stole the credit card number to get payment verified, its gonna be impossible for them to find the passport or social security number too right?
All this is doing is making linden lab say "Ha ha ha there, it is impossible for minors to be on our grid"... when actually its not...
Now there is false advertising, there is where linden lab actually makes it'self ACCOUNTABLE/LIBEL for any incidents involving minors...
when all they need is a nice disclaimer saying... objects in the rear view mirror may be younger than they appear....
or the nice one... click here if it is legal for you to view this content in your country and you are over 18+.. lots of sims now do that .... and you know what... thats all the verification you need... cuz it don't matter if kid entered parents passport number , or if kid clicked a check box that said he /she was old enough... they still lied, they still broke the law... THEY and their PARENTS are still lible. |
What people are not getting Charles, is in the USA, a business is GOVERNED by the laws they are situated in or incorporated in. Since SL is based in San Francisco, they are governed by laws of the state of Califronia, which has very strict laws regarding minors and adult content.
A perfect example is Citibank, based in New York. For years the usary laws in New York kept them from charging high interest rates on Credit Cards, so they moved their credit card operations to South Dakota, which allowed credit card issuers in THAT STATE to charge higher interest. Later they moved their Credit Card operation to Nevada, because it allowed HIGHER INTEREST RATES to be charged by credit card issuers in the state of Nevada.
Unlike many countries, the US has state laws that businesses have to adhere to, as opposed to a national system. Thats just how it is here.
They are just trying to follow the letter of the law, as set down by the legal statutes of the state of California. |
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| Aranea Cullen |
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:48 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 77
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in the disclaimer/tos that we all have to sign and occasionally resign again and again there is a section in there that essentually states that We are adults using an Adult system and that all information that we give in setting up our accounts are true. There's also a part that removes LL from being held responsible essentually for the behaviours etc of people using the system.
Now. Having something like that that completely covers LL's ass in the disclaimer/tos everyone is suppose to sign and read. This age verification is redundant, and unnecessarily putting them at risk of high losses and lawsuits. Not to mention there is a USA bill in the Library of congress regarding Personal Information Security. I believe I mentioned it somewhere on this thread before. That essentually Prohibits the use of what they are asking for as validation, to be used as validation, enless they are directly tied to the government and have special permission.
In Canada it is illegal to give the information they ask for. In many other countries it is the same.
LL is setting themselves up for a fall and truly... I can't see SL being the same in the aftermath |
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| Golyth Carillon |
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 274
Location: Hapeville GA
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SL won't be the same after this goes into place. Hopefully, and I use the term lightly, LL will realize after beta'ing the system that it won't provide them with the security they are after.
It's like I said before in this thread. LL got caught with thier pants down after the whole "Age Play" thing earlier this year and this is thier way of trying to "fix" the flaw that happens way to much in Adult SL.
_________________
"If I was a peanut and your were some butter... I'd eat your soul, set your corpse a flame, laugh at you for a few hours and then put your toasted ass out with whiped cream and at the end of it all.. we'd both be eaten by a fat kid named Phil..." |
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| Charles Noble |
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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course in the beta phase its still optional for land owners to flag their sims and accept only people who have the age verification flag flicked on.
It's still optional to land owners. We all know at the end of the day it dosn't verify age. All it means is someone is able to input an adults data into the linden box as gol mentioned the korean kids doing in other online games.
A disclaimer on the sims will cover the sim owners against claims anyhow. |
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| ghandi |
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 253
Location: Somewhere In The World
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I got bored and decided to do my usual outside of the box thinking for stuff that annoyed me, but I could ultimately do little about except whine.
So here are some alternate suggestions:
1) Get rid of child avatars or transfer it over to Kid SL for them to use. Reimburse those who bought them and give some sort of allowance to those who made them originally. That means get rid of the Cartman avatars too. So no age play. [end result: lose less money and users than current plan]
2) Put in giant glowing red letters on the SL homepage: "If you use this and are underage, you will be dealt with legally. This isn't like pirating music. You will actually be dealt with and swiftly at that." Because who honestly reads the TOS or SL announcements anyways? Put it out there for kids to see. Maybe in Flash form. Kids love that Flash stuff. That's the way of the future. Who wants to read? [kids are still going to click, but who cares? kids are going to get on anyways.]
3) Here's an interesting way to verify users. Annoy people to no end and say that SL is just a beta. Rate the software as M or AO, then distribute through Wal-mart and other general stores that have to verify if someone is old enough. People's personal information is no longer out for people to grab unless the cashier can memorize license #s. [really annoying, but would definitely take the responsibility out of LL's hands. plus think of all the advertising by having it out there for consumers to see. kids are still going to get on even though it's distributed as such (damn 12-year old XBox Live players), but it's still on the parents for not doing their duties as parents.]
4) Someone use open source to design something for all of us in Midian to download and then have fun there. [really annoying, but we have computer programmers in the city; it is somewhat feasable. besides, people designed distributed games all the time.]
5) Distribute the software in bars. (I would say in colleges too, but there's already enough things that students have to become addicted to.)
6) Put Kid SL under a shadow company and web domain so that kids are less likely to realize that the two are connected. [lame, but so is the current beta idea]
_________________
Jesus saves; everyone else takes full damage.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ghandikamachi/ |
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| Golyth Carillon |
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 274
Location: Hapeville GA
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The problem with marketing it towards people in a more "Adult" fashion is for the most part, atleast to my knowledge, the average age of the "standard user" for SL is between 18-25. I'm not saying there isn't a higher age group in the community, on average I'd say the general age of most RP'ers I've known is any where from 18-57, but the majority of users for SL are younger. Now if you tried to market the game through Wal-Mart , and I used that name because you did  , SL would no longer be considered "free" and would fall under the rules and regulations of the store it was being sold at. Would selling the software at a store "help" Linden Labs with some sort of money "boost"? Sure it would but SL has strived since it's first release as being driven by it's users.
Your point about "parents" taking more direct action in what thier child is into has been a point that has been argued and even taken to court since the development of video/computer games. And it's something I really won't get into since 1. I am a parent of two boys who will eventually get an interest in video/computer games and 2. As a gamer myself I have seen this sort of thing come and go since the first MMO rolled off the press and even before that in the BBS days. Companies like Linden Labs that have this long line of "Well we watch over our software and it's users to a point" and then when something happens like the Age Play thing the company then turns and cries "We're sorry for not taking a more direct stance on policies and ToS's but we'll do better next time".
In short if and when the IDV goes into place LL will either have it work for them or it simple won't and you'll see a serious drop in users and sadly most of them will be older adults and not the people it was meant to go after.
_________________
"If I was a peanut and your were some butter... I'd eat your soul, set your corpse a flame, laugh at you for a few hours and then put your toasted ass out with whiped cream and at the end of it all.. we'd both be eaten by a fat kid named Phil..." |
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| rena mayne |
| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:14 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 383
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| ghandi wrote: |
1) Get rid of child avatars or transfer it over to Kid SL for them to use. Reimburse those who bought them and give some sort of allowance to those who made them originally. That means get rid of the Cartman avatars too. So no age play. [end result: lose less money and users than current plan] |
I honestly dont' see how this would help. Age verification is meant to keep kids out of SL. Real kids don't play child AVs.
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http://rena-mayne.livejournal.com/
http://flickr.com/photos/renamayne/
Nature has placed mankind under the governance of two sovereign masters, pain and pleasure. It is for them alone to point out what we ought to do... |
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| ghandi |
| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:27 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 253
Location: Somewhere In The World
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| rena mayne wrote: |
| ghandi wrote: |
1) Get rid of child avatars or transfer it over to Kid SL for them to use. Reimburse those who bought them and give some sort of allowance to those who made them originally. That means get rid of the Cartman avatars too. So no age play. [end result: lose less money and users than current plan] |
I honestly dont' see how this would help. Age verification is meant to keep kids out of SL. Real kids don't play child AVs. |
True enough. That would cost money anyways. No, I was just thinking outside the box. I was proposing some unrealistic ideas that no one would or should take seriously anyways. (well except for the distribution idea. the tavern one, not the wal-mart one. )
_________________
Jesus saves; everyone else takes full damage.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ghandikamachi/ |
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| Reinhardt Stenvaag |
| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 73
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its funny how all this age stuff started...
one ADULT, and another ADULT did something with pixels that someone uninvolved got offended by even though they werent there to witness it.
by that precident setting line of logic... prepare to say goodbye to midian as soon as someone lodges a complaint about it. NoRSim, COLA, Toxia, even some Medieval BDSM/forced fantasy sims... what it will come down to, is if someone who has the option of not participating takes offense, they can and will complain, and this age verification snowball will grow to an opressive, ultra conservative purpose. |
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| Golyth Carillon |
| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 274
Location: Hapeville GA
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Ya so I went and tried to "verify" my age, keep in mind I did that back when LL was using phone calls to verify information on accounts created, and this is what I get for my trouble...
Age Verification Failed
The information that you provided did not match available public records. This can occur if your information has changed recently. If you moved or changed your name in the last 18 months, please try age verification again with your prior address or name.
Granted I have moved within the last 18 months but after entering every address I've had for the last 3 years it still says I failed..... I suck at verifing my own age...
_________________
"If I was a peanut and your were some butter... I'd eat your soul, set your corpse a flame, laugh at you for a few hours and then put your toasted ass out with whiped cream and at the end of it all.. we'd both be eaten by a fat kid named Phil..." |
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| Angel Slocombe |
| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 241
Location: UK
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| Golyth Carillon wrote: |
Ya so I went and tried to "verify" my age, keep in mind I did that back when LL was using phone calls to verify information on accounts created, and this is what I get for my trouble...
Age Verification Failed
The information that you provided did not match available public records. This can occur if your information has changed recently. If you moved or changed your name in the last 18 months, please try age verification again with your prior address or name.
Granted I have moved within the last 18 months but after entering every address I've had for the last 3 years it still says I failed..... I suck at verifing my own age... |
You and me both it seems
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My Midian City Photos
Skype - angel.slocombe |
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| Golyth Carillon |
| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 274
Location: Hapeville GA
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I love how instead of sending you to support or even telling you to call LL directly to verify it says to take a survey instead.... A survey? Seriously...
_________________
"If I was a peanut and your were some butter... I'd eat your soul, set your corpse a flame, laugh at you for a few hours and then put your toasted ass out with whiped cream and at the end of it all.. we'd both be eaten by a fat kid named Phil..." |
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