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| rena mayne |
 Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 331
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I have some pictures and such I could add to an archive. On my flicker sight, I have the fight where Jauque beat Damian. Surely that's historical. ;)
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| Renzo Regent |
| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 11
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I like the sound of all of this. Thanks for all your hard work Jade. (As well as Chandra, Camilla and Angel!)
I'd love to see the character sheets be put into use. This would encourage me to RP with a wider range of people, besides the ones that I know to be capable of showing some self restraint in their RP. |
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| Debra Charron |
| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 416
Location: Trying to get the furniture to rezz in my apartment
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| October Hush wrote: |
*snipped what Charles said*
I think all that is a great idea. It's especially important to emphasize the kinds of characters that aren't allowed in Midian...and we've had quite a cast of characters so far!
And personally, I would like to see more people with fewer special abilities...but that's another topic entirely.
But yeah, having a sheet that is easy to fill out and informative would certainly be a great help. |
I'm in agreement with Tober here. Things seem to have almost progressed to the point that if you're not "teh Uber" (Vamp/Were/Neko+something else/Biomech/hitech weaponry/monster from pits of hell) then its hard to not be meat on the table for those who are. Might be good to specify in better terms what the limits are so that we can make "informed consensual" decisions about RP combat.
I'm of the school of thought that says good tactics can offset imbalances in character power....but when the odds are too skewed towards the high-powered side, its almost not worth the effort.
Some folks are going to GodMode reguardless...but for those who may stray that direction out of ignorance, then some greater specificity will be great....so long as we can do it w/o restricting creativity.
When it comes to character sheets - if we wanted to use an available system (HERO System/Champions, GURPS) the two at left are nice and generic (and point-based for game balance) - but I'm guessing we're looking at something more basic just to give us an idea of what "game balance" looks like. Maybe more of a "spec sheet".
If I can help in any way, feel free to give me a buzz. Game design is something that interests me a lot
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~Deb Charron
Audentes Fortuna Juvat (Fortune Favors the Bold)
BlackStar Military Services
Commander: Midian City Operations
Pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/debcharron/
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| J8 Skall |
| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 788
Location: God knows.....Follow the trail of blood
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Thing is though, on paper, Jay's a powerful character, and people can see that from reading my bio on the forum, his equipment list is also quite long and diverse. But I have a rep for not god moding, especially amongst the players who can actually roleplay (ie - not scream godmode when I refuse to drop for your 2 line emoted attack looking for an ego boost).
I feel this might mean profiles overshadow the actual traits of the player.
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(All arguements [or discussion points] stated above are the player's opinion only, they are not truth from on high, the subversive whisperings of satan or the grunted rumblings of a troll... Incase you were struggling with the concept...) |
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| Aegyptia Elvehjem |
| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 1125
Location: incognito or Bangkok Records
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Just add something like what you just said to the bottom of your characer sheet.
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| J8 Skall |
| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 788
Location: God knows.....Follow the trail of blood
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/me hasnt a clue what he said at the bottom of his character sheet so goes and checks...but it likely wasnt too impressive.
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Jay Skall
(All arguements [or discussion points] stated above are the player's opinion only, they are not truth from on high, the subversive whisperings of satan or the grunted rumblings of a troll... Incase you were struggling with the concept...) |
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| Masha Eilde |
| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:04 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 355
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| Debra Charron wrote: |
| If I can help in any way, feel free to give me a buzz. Game design is something that interests me a lot |
::bounces:: I love Champions. Someone remind me someday to talk about my teleporting character in a Cyberpunk Cthulu game (Hero system) where the disad was that each teleport required a roll and a chance for a monster to be summoned. I got extremely lucky until JUST the right time, a big epic fight when I failed and hey. Where did those two Shuggoth come from?
Hey. Can we have Cthulu-oid characters in Midian?
Cheers!
-M, who has had WAY too much caffiene today
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| theshadow |
| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:17 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 171
Location: US, PA
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I'm a big GURPS nerd... Though I didn't pick up the new edition that came out a year or so ago...
For quick and easy though I love the Tri-State system... |
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| Charles Noble |
| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:03 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 793
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we are not going to be too point based, more or less having areas on a character sheet that give "ideas" about what is and what is not considered modey..
simple english ideas, as I say people are free to put in that they have billions of dollars, a bat cave, an impeneratable suit of armor .... but ya know they "have" to have it listed on their profile to use it... and if they have way too much "uber" tech then people are going to steer clear...
having an impressive arsenal of "normal" weapons ((blades, guns, conventional armour" is not going to deter me, as you can only carry what you are carrying and yeah, its a normal weapon..))
having more than say three items of tech that is beyond conventional is going to raise an eyebrow.. and also allows restricts technology from flooding the playing field... ok you have three items of non conventional tech... thats MORE than enough...
bladed bracers are nothing uber special, and i would say its conventional melee weapon... whilst other things MUST be listed such as cloaking devices or teleporters, also the tech would have restrictions in a fight...
you build an item of tech that has positive effects in a fight, it should have drawbacks in a fight... if I don't see a draw back then I know i'm not going to find the roleplay I seek... however you are more than welcome to modey tech, but it allows people to make informed decisions about you and say..... nah... which is better then them making 2-3 posts and then finding out they are stuck in a combat situation to someone who's going to tech mode. Or mutation mode... and there would also be suggested guide lines for species...
all these suggested guidelines do is give you an idea of whats considered even... if everyone follows these guidelines we have an even playing field...
combat skills would be allocated a points system... i.e 10 fields... 30 points... 1 point minimum in a trait, 5 point maximum ... means at the end of the day you will never excell in all weapons types. you'll instantly tell the moders who put 5 in every field. even though the suggestion of how many points are there is on the sheet 
see its not rigidly "enforced" or compulsary... but at least you can tell on paper who's super modey as commentries exist on each section of the thing, and yes, it will also get new comers who enter the sim to start playing the "ballanced" way... a "ballanced character" is nothing to gripe about...
now you might say "i'm an excellent all round fighter a master in every weapon known to man, I offset this by lacking social skills" well... thats not an offset, and if that was a ballanced character charles should be invincible :p
On paper the idea is to be just as impressive ((or not)) as the next guy, but you'll find the guidelines are fairly generous but not overtly generous.
All the guidelines on the character sheet do is give you an idea of whats "generally" ((of course theres execeptions)) considered fair
for example its suggested three items of "non conventional tech" if you have NONE thats super... if you have "four" thats... hmmmmm... if you have five, six, seven, eight, fuck i've lost count....thats ... nah forget you.
ditto for mutations....
ditto for the species suggested abilities and drawbacks..
its all in the suggestion... the suggestion is the happy medium, playing under powered to the suggestion is dandy, no complaints... playing to it to the letter is fine.. playing waaaaaaaaaay above it is going to single you out. As is not filling in a sheet at all..
It's really self policing in terms of how someone fills it in, no need to complain about someone god moding, you look at their sheet and make that decision, you can even up the anti with "no rp sheet, no play"
Self policing helps because people can look at their own sheet and stop and think..... now does this make me look like a moder... the guidelines help you make that decision.
Most of jays tech is not abnormal anyhow... i'm talking tech that is "HI-tech" night vision goggles = low tech and it don't swing a fight, neither do bladed bracers..... nano bots that repair you during a fight however.... non conventianal tech..
its really stuff like that.. i mean charles has an impressive arsenal of tech locked in his weapons cabient, he has flamethrowers, grenades etc, but he can't carry em all at once, and they locked away at home for the most part...
he carries a sword, whip, python, bladed bracers and wears a light armour covering his torso... do those need to be listed as non conventianal tech? nope... those are just standard things... what he would have to list is the cloaking field he can sneak around the city with unseen..
so thats one item... draw back? can't use it in combat, only has an hour charge, or 3 cloaks and a decloak which ever comes first...
its not conventianal tech,so needs to be listed and is useless in combat situation anyhow...
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| Mordag McCallen |
| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 396
Location: Bunker
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Aint it a nice thing that all has good and bad sides.
I understand the evening thing, quite clearly.
What I dont understand is why would professional lifer combat specialist with long experience (yes, I mean veteran soldier, perhaps not even conventional marine, but SpecOps) would have to have same number of points in combat skills as random street guy. I understand that even combatchances is everything for you, Charles, for me on the other hand it is not.
So if you want combat skills in the sheet, add also like 20 non-combat skills. That might make it quite more real - Soldiers will get combat skills high-up, Techs will get technical skills high up, MPD will get PR skills high up (haha), doctors will get medical skills high up. I really dont see any reason why would doctor be same good fighter as pro soldier, if you get my meaning.
On the other hand, I wouldnt mind if the highest level of boosts went down a lot from the state where it is now.
I wouldnt even mind few people with superior high-tech gear in numbers, my ego wont suffer that much from facing odds that I cannot beat at some times, but then who is here to decide who can and who cannot. Perhaps making the roof of abilities is only solution indeed, since there is way way too many battlemechs, super-vampires, uber-mutants, or I am just unlucky meeting only them?
And a last note on character sheet, call me bad roleplayer, but checking on the player´s abilities front just spoils the fun of surprise for me, so I wouldnt ever do it. And actualy, I wouldnt show my character sheet even, in a way I just dont like spoils of this type. I would feel like giving everyone my current underwear to check on.
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| CezWriter |
| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:24 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 141
Location: Staring at you from the catwalks...
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On combat and various things...
Im not an experienced roleplayer. I did some when I was younger, and took it up here in midian. Im not great at english either - well, I can handle a normal conversation and I have no problem at all following whats going on in the forums or in SL/Midian. But when it comes to specifics, like combat terms in english, then Im lost (well honestly, Im not that good at it in swedish either - simply because I dont know much about combat and weapons in RL).
Of course, Im learning (or at least doing my best to learn) all the time by observing and participating... but since I dont have any great knowledge or cool skills, then I chose my character to not have them either. Shes an average neko (meaning shes agile, can jump high and have good hearing), and shes pretty good at aiming her gun... thats it. I dont really see the point of playing a character that is ultra-super-special - because I cant do it and make it reliable.
Umm, what my point is? That we all have different backgrounds when it comes to roleplaying, language, RL experiences and therefore choose to play different characters, that suits us. Things probably happen (or are) for a reason.
(bah, yeah its friday and Im a bit tired... sorry for the rambling)
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| Charles Noble |
| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 793
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And mordag thats your choice, and what is an average street guy?
You had a world war here probablly where everybody in the sim had a military background as probablly a majority of charaters were forcebally drafted during the war
maybe like israeal its compusary to serve 2-3 conscription/ tour of duty/national service? ((it is not unheard of, and I do think that the legion would send "youth" overseas to border watch))
just cuz you are a lifer soilder don't mean everyone else hasn't served their time or term..
Not saying it's true, just something to consider a "possibility"
really the character sheets as said would exist purely for matching purposes.. understated characters can understate and overstated over state and people can refuse to fill out the thing. At the end of the day it adds an option where you can say
Snap, now theres someone who has a ballanced character
or
now theres someone who is just going to be a pita
or now thers someone who is...
yadda yadda
puts more choice in. I'll add ten "non" combat skills... though bet your ass no one fills them in... or someone complains whaaaaa I cant be an excellent shot and cook me own dinner?
as army training teaches basic survival skills... hell military gonna demand those high too...
and for instance theres the odd character who could argue for more points.. example charles is impossible to "date" or should we say "determine his age" due to his regeneration ability, could be he's served in more military conflicts than half the city "could be" should I push him for "more" points? or should I just keep that as a nice background possibility? I think the later , it's never going to rear its ugly head in a combat, or i'm never going to use it to control a combat.
Theres always a possibility someone is going to "bend" their sheet and add more points, fill out "fives" in each combat field and add a little note to say "this represents me being super bad ass and killer pwn joo"
which you know they are entitled to do... as I said the points are guidelines not set in stone... It just clearly points out those who are willing to follow ballanced guidelines and those that will "win win" every combat situation and gives you the player the chance to say
"well actually I was looking for a ballanced fight to bounce off emoting skills rather than someone lord it over me with their background history"
for me the fun of the combat is seeing how you counter my text with yours
not how you counter my text with a background excuse.
I.E how skillfull a fighter you are with the "realistic" emotes, I've had really hard fights with hapless victims because they emote the fight well and counter me in a way I have to say "wow, thats a really good defence"
on the contary I've pwned "super bad ass military killing machines" because simply their emotes were sloppy and left obvious openings ..
I say let the fighting skills be inheriant in the text itself, not in the character sheets... where you get god moding is where people can't emote realistically yet feel the need to win, so counter your moves with some lazy tech or mutation enhancement... such as bleeding radiation or canabilistic nanobots...
character sheets allow you to see those things listed and if you are like me and prefer ((yes its a preference thing, the whole point of the character sheet)) a ballanced fight... the evidence is immediately present.
will this eliminate all mismatches? If people fill in the sheets yes. i will be able to decide who is going to give a realistic gritty fight and who aint..
again, pure preference... if people don't fill in the sheets I have to play by ear, which will mean its 50/50 chance of me getting what I seek from the rp.
course this is only if people fill in the sheets honestly.. Maybe something on the sheet like "In all honestly I do not like to lose a combat" or in "In all honestly I'm open to a loss" yadda yadd.
if they tick the first box, well kudos, its honest.
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The above statements are opinions of the person behind the name "Charles Noble" these opinions may change over time, they may not agree with your opinon, that is the nature of opinions. Endevour to debate the "issue" not the "Person" |
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| ghandi |
| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 246
Location: Somewhere In The World
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A possible example:
Brawl: 3
Melee (bat, pool cue, stick): 2
Melee (unconventional, whip): 1
Sword: 3
Sidearm: 3
Shotgun: 2
Automatics: 1
Long range gun: 2
Sniping: 1
Explosives: 1
Linguistics: 4
Science: 4
Tech Knowledge: 2
Computers: 2
Medical: 4
Artist: 2
Entertainer: 3
Business/Politics: 2
Cook/Tender: 2
Construction: 1
*the numbers were taking into account that everything should have at least 1 in it. Honestly, I wouldn't have put anything in the fighting skills with the 1s because he has no experience with those skills of late.
Now I didn't use up all 30 points or whatever if we don't take into account everything was suggested as at least having the 1 point like in WW. And in Linguistics and Science, I was sorely tempted to take the 5th point. But there are those in the city that I know surpass Ghandi's knowledge in both those fields, so I scaled it back so that those that put that 5th in are acknowledged as pretty much being the first people that you want to see about something in those areas.
And I'm such a geek for enjoying making stuff like this up.
But is this the kind of thing that people were talking about for character sheets?
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| Mordag McCallen |
| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 396
Location: Bunker
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Quite, Ghandi, at least on my side.
Though skills tht are representing your ability to talk are unecesary sine you talk for your character. Science is valid then. Entertainer, well, it really springs or not from your play. Technicaly skills have meaning only things that you can alter well by your mind.
I mean, would be nice to have someone like me picking character meant as entertainer, so I would place 4... but in all honesty, I woudnt be able to entertain anyone in the end, with my player ability to entertain in its fullest meaning. I entertain people by acting as if I had my rifle sticked up my ass till end of rifle butt.
Eh, do I make at least a bit of sense (scratches 4 in Communications skill and substitutes with -3)
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| theshadow |
| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 171
Location: US, PA
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| ghandi wrote: |
*the numbers were taking into account that everything should have at least 1 in it. Honestly, I wouldn't have put anything in the fighting skills with the 1s because he has no experience with those skills of late.
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See this is why I love GURPS... Certain things default to stats rather than the skill themselves... So say you know how to fire a handgun, well that also suggests you know enough to fire most projectiles at some minimal skill (You just may be able to hit the broadside of a barn), but you don't have to spend points on it... It wouldn't imply any skill in say 'Laser Rifles' or 'Mortars' or some such, but it's a good way of handling skills not in general use though basic knowledge is assumed...
Anyways, I doubt we'll have anything close to that. I also never assumed we'd have a point system for these at all. Only the most generic and universal systems of the sort could come anywhere close to fitting Midian... So it's unlikely in the extreme. |
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