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| Chandra Meehan |
 Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: OOC Consent for Faction HQs |
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Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 719
Location: Midian (Cementary - would love to rest in peace, but am not allowed to)
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| AlegriaDagostino wrote: |
Example. Recently, a fight broke out in the MCMC. The circumstances surrounding it were realistic, (except for the whole vampire bit), and it's entirely possible a fight could happen IN a hospital. A grenade was detonated, shots fired, blood everywhere, a real mess. This COULD happen if (god forbid) it was real life. But alas, the entire few hours of RP was voided because a faction leader wasn't contacted to obtain permission for the fight in the MC.
Doesn't this bother ANYONE else? |
Whereas I would agree that a fight COULD happen in a hospital - I'd very much argue that IRL every 2nd citizen indeed OWNS a grenade that they could toss inside... So with that being said, I unfortunately have to answer the 'bother-question' with a simple "No." and add "The ridiculous equipment of weapons people carry does bother me though." So basically, I'd think normal gun fights and brawls would be perfectly cool and fun, but pulling out grenades and the like is in my eyes total bullshit - seeing how you'd get yourself pretty hurt when tossing one into the room that you're standing in... well guess you'd get my point. And I am sure the MCMC would have seen it the same way, if it had happened with NORMAL weapons or fists, I am sure nothing would have been voided either.
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| AlegriaDagostino |
| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 117
Location: Mostly MPD. Chasing the Creepies. You know who you are.
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| Quote: |
*runs by the MPD while no one is there and shoots out the glass windows*
*spray paints a giant penis on the mpd station while no one is there*
*plants bugs inside the front section of the mpd station while no one is there*
*sets up claymores on mpd doors while no one is there*
*tosses grenade through MPD front doors smashing security moniters and cameras and adding burn damage to walls and trashing the window to the front desk and causing debris to cut off the front office and restricting access to the station itself*
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LOL...I'm laughing because this happens. Truly. ESPECIALLY the graffiti. Now the bugs thing is different...that we usually get a request for consent. Our doors have been blown off, officers shot at from OUTSIDE the doors, you name it.
| Quote: |
| So basically, I'd think normal gun fights and brawls would be perfectly cool and fun, but pulling out grenades and the like is in my eyes total bullshit - seeing how you'd get yourself pretty hurt when tossing one into the room that you're standing in... well guess you'd get my point. And I am sure the MCMC would have seen it the same way, if it had happened with NORMAL weapons or fists, I am sure nothing would have been voided either. |
I agree with you. Grenade in question was wielded by a vampire so I guess he wasn't too concerned about his own injury possibilities. I thought the whole thing had been voided because of the grenade, too, but was told it was the entire fight.
I don't want to pick apart any specific incident, truly. It doesn't bother me THAT much that THAT particular RP was voided. It's just the entire principle of the thing. I just worry a bit that lack of consent for some feasible actions ruins spontanaity (spelled that way wrong).
Not about to buck the system here either. Just wanted some friendly debate on the subject. I have to remind myself constantly that not all aspects of the game are played to realisitic parameters, vampires, lycans and all youother non-humans notwithstanding 
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| Chandra Meehan |
| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Location: Midian (Cementary - would love to rest in peace, but am not allowed to)
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| AlegriaDagostino wrote: |
| I agree with you. Grenade in question was wielded by a vampire so I guess he wasn't too concerned about his own injury possibilities. I thought the whole thing had been voided because of the grenade, too, but was told it was the entire fight. |
Voiding a fight with minor damage makes not that much sense unless it really had some bad effects on the following RP.. But then the way I do it (and actually did that last night) - I just went with the minor damage and ignored the grenade part in the crypt. Cause as well I didn't feel like doing renovation work for a granade that shouldn't have been tossed in the first place (but here as well a long story leads to the 'why it should not have been tossed'). So that makes it really easier to GM, not the hassle of voiding a full scene - and after all, those that hadn't been online wouldn't haven known about a detonation anyway.
Besides that: don't tell me it was a vamp of ours. cause really EVERY vamp should be worried about their own life, it is not as 'immortal' as it seems!
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| AlegriaDagostino |
| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 117
Location: Mostly MPD. Chasing the Creepies. You know who you are.
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| Quote: |
| Besides that: don't tell me it was a vamp of ours. cause really EVERY vamp should be worried about their own life, it is not as 'immortal' as it seems! |
No, LOL...it was Geroff. And he's gone now so...
LMAO...I was waiting for you to ask if it was a Breed vamp
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| Charles Noble |
| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 18 Feb 2007
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meh bullet holes in the wall, broken bottles, spillage, chipped woodwork i aint worried about.
It's stuff like "Oh your front door is busted off" or "Your bar has been gutted by fire" or "Theres a radiation leak" or all other shit that I can't simply sweep up or live with that I'm arguing against
break a lock then rp a locksmith afterwards cuz I certiantly aint or I just void damage to my property that isn't acceptable. With the magic words "My manager/bartender/employee/good smaritian got the damage repaired while I was offline"
cuz I'm no way rping standing in the ruins of my bar when I wasn't consulted.
In fact a better way to go would be thus..
do whatever you like when i'm not there, nuke it, but next time I login there it's been magically rebuilt. which kinda is like a void, I don't care what you do to "people" in my property, so long as
A. You respect locked doors
B. You don't fuck up the property beyond resonable
C.if you do manage to break through a locked door because someone else thinks its a good idea and has access to the doors then as its MY doors, you consent to what ever retribution I deem acceptable... example, blowing your head off and setting you ablaze  
D. Best way to do all the above with out hassle is simply make sure you and your victims don't tattle tale bout a single thing.
Last edited by Charles Noble on Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| Lindsay Noonan |
| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Mar 2007
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Location: look up, you'll see me if I want you to
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Okay, to chime in here there are good reasons for this rule, as Charles has stated it prevents "nuisance" notes of "non-rp" with a faction. I can't imagine having to constantly rp around people dropping a notecard that says "yeah, we broke into your place and stole all your stuff except for what we booby trapped, you're all dead! Muahahahahaaaa!"
It's because it is autoing. Which effectively violates the whole faction's consent. YES in a real world it could happen. Yes there are times that public places are virtually unattended but in the case of our faction HQ it is theoretically occupied 24/7/365 by several Nekos at any given time who may or may not be currently logged in. Many public places also have weapons detectors at the door in real life as well, but we've saved prims by not representing them inworld. I can't imagine a hospital or police station in MIDIAN of all places not having decent security when it comes to that. Does that mean security guards never leave the doors unattended? No, of course not.
Now, having said all this if someone showed up at the den looking for a fight and I were present I'd likely let it play out so long as the role play was "proportional". For one, if 8 people show up and there's only one person present who's only there because they're already badly wounded the odds are you'll be asked to just wait until leadership is present for consent. On the other hand if that same group showed up with three or four CW/KW's present I'd say "go for it". We don't have some super secret hidden weapon or massive plan for it but we do patrol and keep an eye out constantly. The basic rule is if you're on our walkways and we don't know you then you'll be asked to leave or "helped" to ground level. If you show up on a den rooftop you'd better have an IC invite or we shoot first and tend to just forget the questions altogether!
To complain that a rule that prevents you from voiding my consent because I'm offline is "unrealistic" may be technically correct but to me it makes sense. Too many people used to rp ripping off the Twilight Zone, now they have a cage over their liquor to prevent it, a simple concession to the idea that it could happen if there were nothing to prevent it.
All this meadering aside, I see both sides of the argument pretty plainly, so I get why it is sometimes viewed as an impediment to role play, but honesly I don't like rp being forced on me. Having me as an unwilling participant just encourages me to void rp, though generally I tend to play along pretty well. If I'm on my way to bed you aren't getting your consent though.
>rant mode off<
Linds
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| Belial |
| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:42 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 19 Mar 2008
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I had a scene the other day, relevant to the topic...
I agree that this rule should be considered for revision. I also disagree with the concept of magically created safe places. |
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| RoxyannRepublic |
| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:49 am Post subject: |
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If the rules are going to be changed then they would need to be regulated quite strictly.
I think everyone here can see the pro's and cons, in my case having the bunker breached by just anybody without consent is a big no no, but I certainly don't mind somebody shooting up the bunker with small arms fire because they won't make a dent!
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| J8 Skall |
| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Mar 2007
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Location: God knows.....Follow the trail of blood
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I think the debate has shifted somewhat in the last few posts and maybe I wasnt clear what it was I was saying.
I don't think anyone is contesting the concept that in order to damage a char's property in any hugely relevant way, you need their consent.
The point I was making was that public areas, like the TZ, SP, PH etc, indeed the hospital and docks and the like should not be consideres pacifist zones where theres an OOC rules stopping fighting. Any enforcement of such a rule should be IC, if you cant enforce it, hire some Mercs to take carew of the troublemakers in your bar, whichever way though, I don't think there should be an OOC blocker on conflict.
My secondary point was about incursions into faction areas not usually accessible, I would propose the most senior faction member online can okay or block such a move, for quicker more fluid roleplay. You still need consent to get past that locked door (ie, no sit cheat etc), only that consent can come from the faction member whose online during the roleplay... Thers no point waiting hours to get faction leader consent, the moment will have passed and the question would be irrelevent. Also, any incurions via the above cant cause any damage that isnt easily fixable... ie /me goes to get a new lock from the hardware store/docks/wherever.
If the base owner needs to put effort beyond that into fixing damage, it should need a faction leader okay...
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(All arguements [or discussion points] stated above are the player's opinion only, they are not truth from on high, the subversive whisperings of satan or the grunted rumblings of a troll... Incase you were struggling with the concept...) |
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| ginseng_kyong |
| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 28
Location: catwalks
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The MPD retreated into the Dolls HQ for regrouping? It is a good thing no one was home or you could of found guns at their back.
Or are the MPD are good friends with the Dolls? |
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| mycaling |
| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 146
Location: Midian City
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It was before the Dolls were reformed, Gin.
And, no...the Dolls haven't really interacted with the MPD yet, aside from Katti bringing Naomi by for a 'health inspection'. I look forward to their first interactions... |
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| AlegriaDagostino |
| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Location: Mostly MPD. Chasing the Creepies. You know who you are.
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LOL I think ginseng kinda set the tone for how the dolls/mpd relationship might play out. Though I don't see why...
Prostitution isn't illegal in Midian. Can't we all be friends? LOL
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| Mordag McCallen |
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Location: Bunker
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Gotta say I was laughing too reading Charles vs MPD building example.
I see this a lot on our bunker even when locked, people shot even rockets and cannons on the bunker, toss nades, snipe us on our own rooftop and in our own guardtower just like that, spray on the walls, someone planted bugs into our bunker too (living ones though, who were making thsi annoying "tk tk" sound all the time) and atop of it, I think someone is playing out selling stolen UAC equipment in the city even when we didnt have anything lost ever since the artifact theft.
This is no official statement, but I generealy mind very little what people do on our outter "public" areas, well, public past the fence, but anyway... For all I care they can place claymores there day and night we will just keep adding them to our storage thanks to cameras and our explosives specialists. You can support UAC by donating some spying bugs too, Mordag likes to toy with these things, really, up to you.
Where all the fun vanishes is when people are attempting something that majorly affects the faction as whole or the faction building as a purpose of the mentioned doing and do not ask. Anyone claiming using UAC way in and out of the city, stealing suplies from UAC and selling them, or walking freely inside of the bunker without OOC knowledge of the faction command is disrespectfull liar and deserves not RP from UAC period.
And to add the shock, yes, what Charles said is pretty much my opinion on this kind of things as well. Feel free to play out your scene as long as you dont expect us to clean it up after you, and dont break locks, especialy when none of UAC was present and if you insist on breaking inside, please report yourself to our security cameras and thanks for your consent to be perma killed in swift raid against your person. If not, ignore solves it allright.
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| Chandra Meehan |
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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Just as a short note:
Thanks Alegria for the thread, and thanks to Roxy to pick it up and transfer it to the City Hall. So for all you guys to know, the factionleaders are discussing the topic currently and we will see if that will cause changes and how those might look - until then, it is a still no-attack-on-faction-HQ-rules though.
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| J8 Skall |
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Mar 2007
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Location: God knows.....Follow the trail of blood
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Were the arguements and points on here transfered, or just the opening post?
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(All arguements [or discussion points] stated above are the player's opinion only, they are not truth from on high, the subversive whisperings of satan or the grunted rumblings of a troll... Incase you were struggling with the concept...) |
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