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| OOC Consent for Faction HQs |
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| RoxyannRepublic |
 Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Almost all raids are preplanned events, especially with the MPD and the Legion, you need IC motive to go "bust down doors" and once you have it IC you then talk to the appropiate faction representitives OOC to let them know what you would like to do.
This process is one of the key element for a successful inter-faction roleplay, this way all party's can work out what they both want from the roleplay and who is to take part.
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| Daymian Decosta |
| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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Well of course private RP's should stay private, but in this case I'm talking about the people who get involved with raping, kidnapping etc scenes who are like, "Okay let's just see where this will bring us."
You have three parties when it comes to these kind of RP's
Criminal vs. Victim & Friends/Law/Family (Last one is optional. If the vicitim doesn't have friends or family in town, they stay out of it, and if the person isn't familliar with the MPD, they usually won't find out that the person is getting (raped/kidnapped etc)
normally it would be:
Criminal (Private) vs. Victim (Private) & Friends/Law/Family (Private or not allowed)
Problems start to occur when we get this:
Criminal (Private) vs Victim (Public) & Friends/Law/Family (Public)
See the criminal has something planned and goes off to look for a victim.
Sometimes you will get that the victim he/she has chosen has friends in town. The victim in this case thinks, what in i think people do in most cases: "I'll just let it play out, see what happens, it could be interesting."
So the RP continues....victim gets (Raped, Kidnapped etc)
Eventually the victim comes back, and everybody is like "Where have u been?"
Victim ends up telling what happened, and BAM..at this point we have a problem, because something private has leaked out in public and you end up with people who want to help.
It's kinda odd if your friends are like "Ow..really? well that's a pitty.... anyway...have u seen the super bowl!?"
What I'm trying to say is.
If you engage in a private roleplay... isn't there a way to keep it private afterwards as well then?
I can understand when our lovely bad guys in Midian don't want to get chased every time.
This way you won't get other people involved, trying to seek justice or whatever.
Ofcourse, if you have a private RP and the criminal decides to go public, then that's his choice... and he should then agree with people trying to figure out what exactly happened.
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| Deets Carroll |
| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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Location: According to this map, I'm over there somewhere.
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| Daymian Decosta wrote: |
Eventually the victim comes back, and everybody is like "Where have u been?"
Victim ends up telling what happened, and BAM..at this point we have a problem, because something private has leaked out in public and you end up with people who want to help.
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The attacker and victim should discuss the ramifications of the attack. "If you attack me, my faction/family/dog Rover is gonna come after you. Do you accept this?" At which point, if the attacker isn't interested in retribution, they can agree to keep it secret.
I think what Charles has suggested in the past, is that if there is retribution, the friends contact the attacker OOC and arrange for ONE act of retribution (after all, it was ONE attack). As opposed to 15 friends each demanding justice and picking a separate fight.
If the victim will agree OOC to keep it private, they can decline to identify the attacker, out of shame, or fear of retribution against themselves or loved ones. Or they could claim they were drugged and it's all a blur, there are lots of ways to play it. If the friends become too persistent, the victim should remind them OOC that it was agreed to be kept secret. There's no excuse for anyone to pursue this. Victim is happy, attacker is happy, nobody else is involved. |
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| mycaling |
| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 144
Location: Midian City
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| Daymian Decosta wrote: |
| What I'm trying to say is.If you engage in a private roleplay... isn't there a way to keep it private afterwards as well then? I can understand when our lovely bad guys in Midian don't want to get chased every time. This way you won't get other people involved, trying to seek justice or whatever. |
I could be reading this wrong, and if so, I blame lack of coffee... anyway, here goes.
To me, this sounds as if there are expectations on how the victim and criminal should react in character. My char -may- have consented to something (ie. rape, beating, whatever), but that doesn't mean that ICly she actually -wants- that. In my view, players' natural reactions shouldn't be prescribed for convenience of friends/family/law.
How a character responds depends on a lot of things: Did the criminal disguise themselves/drug them/etc so victim doesn't get a description? If not, then unless I've discussed it ahead of time with the criminal, chars will react accordingly.
Reactions don't automatically lend themselves to "OMG, I need revenge now.", and depend on personalities and all these other factors.
Likewise for the criminal. If they don't want retribution, they'll either say something OOC, be very smart in how they attack and leave no trail (*makes shifty eyes at Forge*), do things entirely in private to keep everyone out, or intimidate the daylights out of their victims. Victims consent by playing along.
Justice isn't often served in Midian. Just a fact of life in the dark themed sim we all choose to play in. If characters want it, then negotiate it out OOC, respect your fellow players -- it goes a long ways. Criminals have rights to consent too, and they shouldn't be subjected to dozens of retribution acts by every friend a victim has in the city.
My two cents.
Edited to add: Yeah, what Deets just said.  |
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| Daymian Decosta |
| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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| Quote: |
| Justice isn't often served in Midian. Just a fact of life in the dark themed sim we all choose to play in. If characters want it, then negotiate it out OOC, respect your fellow players -- it goes a long ways. Criminals have rights to consent too, and they shouldn't be subjected to dozens of retribution acts by every friend a victim has in the city. |
Don't get me wrong, i agree with you.
It just brings up confusion when not all parties are informed about this.
Maybe we should try and contact admins from other Roleplaying sims similar to ours and ask how they handle it.
Because i personally haven't seen any other sims with the same problems as ours.
Crack Den for example also has gangs, police and HQ's and they seem to get along just fine, from what i see.
Where exactly do we go wrong?
Is it because we're complaining too much, should we just go with the flow?
Theses are just two of a few questions i have about this.
I also wonder if the MPD really is needed in Midian.
Haven't seen many officers around lately, and there is very little activity going on inside the MPD.
Shouldn't the MPD be one of leading factions around?
I mean pretty much everyone who is part of a different faction has access to numerous weapons which allows them to operate as a mini army.
So is the MPD actually still needed here, and if so.. what do they actually do in Midian.
Hardly anyone bothers to go to the MPD for help.
Are there any quick solutions?
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| Deets Carroll |
| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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Location: According to this map, I'm over there somewhere.
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| Daymian Decosta wrote: |
I also wonder if the MPD really is needed in Midian.
Haven't seen many officers around lately, and there is very little activity going on inside the MPD.
Shouldn't the MPD be one of leading factions around?
I mean pretty much everyone who is part of a different faction has access to numerous weapons which allows them to operate as a mini army.
So is the MPD actually still needed here, and if so.. what do they actually do in Midian.
Hardly anyone bothers to go to the MPD for help.
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Ummm... that conversation deserves it's own topic, I'd say.... |
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| mycaling |
| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 144
Location: Midian City
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| Daymian Decosta wrote: |
Don't get me wrong, i agree with you.
It just brings up confusion when not all parties are informed about this. |
Who isn't being informed? If someone wants to get involved, why don't they just IM for consent to the victim and perpetrator? I'm probably being obtuse here without knowing an example. |
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| Charles Noble |
| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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Theres no problem simple respect can't fix.
all people have to understand is this and this alone.
I come to midian to roleplay an evil son of a bitch.
I find people who love to roleplay with evil sonsofbitches and enjoy the experience.
Now.. the basics.
I don't care who the girl is. I don't care what friends or family she has or what faction she is roleplaying with. If she seeks that experience with me ((trust me, the girls track ME down, not vice versa)) then it's tween her and me Period.
Other people don't enter the equation unless agreed before hand.
It's not my problem if a victim has vigilantee friends
its the vigilantee's problem that they have victim friends 
If you don't want to feel useless and are sick of having your friends raped etc, then simply avoid making friends with victims hmmmm?
The other thing you must consider for the realisim argument is this.
Realistically to avoid people coming after me I would
A. Kill my victims after finishing with them and dispose of their bodies.
B. Sell my victims to the dolls house never to be seen again.
Yet I wouldn't get consent for that, so aye, this "realisim" vs "consent" thing is a two edged sword. If my hands are tied from protecting my character by my victims consent, then so are vigilantee's
To put it more plainly.
"the only reason you are being told about me attacking a character in the first place is because the victim declined me consent to cover my tracks, so like wise I decline consent to retribution"
Just as I have to break character and behave in an unrealistic fashion by letting my victim get away, so too do you and let the bad guy get away.
we both have to suck it up and deal with the fact that our target has not consented to actions that would make our ic lives better.
I.E my victim didn't consent to being killed. So too bad for me she unrealisitcally lives to tell..
and you're target of retribution, just happens to be somehow unrealistically untouchable and lives to pillage , loot and rape again..
ideally I'd kill or sell my victims
Ideally you'd get retrubution on all my living victims.
As my ideal aint reached due to my victims consent, why should yours?
what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
do unto others.
we all of us follow the rules of consent, we all of us respect other peoples roleplay and limits.
The problems only occur when people think they are "above" that, because they are playing "Heroes" and somehow that rule shouldn't apply to them, because they are "good".
said it a million times.
It's a game, It's roleplay, chillax, nothing is worth getting worked up over. If someone declines to roleplay with me, or won't roleplay a scene with me they don't want to, that's their decision and I respect it.
Now how is it that "I" the "Badman" can happily accept that state of affairs yet the "good guy heroes" cannot?
THAT is the issue.
The "Moral" police with their ideas of whats "right" and whats "wrong" and the idea that in a roleplay enviorment somehow we need "reminding".
We don't need reminding ,we are adults,we wouldn't behave this way in the real world. we have the real world just a glance away from the moniter to remind us of the real world. We come here for pure "Escapisim" I don't need my "escapisim" coloured by the "Moral majority"
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The above statements are opinions of the person behind the name "Charles Noble" these opinions may change over time, they may not agree with your opinon, that is the nature of opinions. Endevour to debate the "issue" not the "Person"
Last edited by Charles Noble on Thu May 08, 2008 7:34 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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| Father Eamon |
| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 79
Location: St. Michael's Church, Midian City
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I see MPD officers and cadets all the time. True, I rarely find one in the station when I happen in there, but I've never had a situation where the parish needed one and a cop couldn't be found somewhere.
(They've been all over the bloody church lately, too. Hook keeps leaving body parts. /me laughs. So thanks, MPD. Much appreciated.)
But back to the faction HQ discussion, and consent:
| Quote: |
| And if you wreck things or make a mess, please let them know as well, so they can RP cleaning, repairing it...or if they want NPC it. At the end of the day....does it really hurt to have people Roleplay at your HQ? |
Roleplay? No. But some faction HQs are more constant targets than others, with bigger IC ramifications if something is wrecked.
There's open consent for minor damage in the church--blood stains, weird leavings, etc.--as long as people pick up their prims when we're done reacting/cleaning it up. And I usually give consent to major damage as long as I'm asked first (mostly to make sure it's not going to interfere with another plot) and as long as the structural integrity of the church remains (IOW, as long as we've got walls, doors, ceiling and floor when you're done).
Church desecrations, however, require a talk with me first and consent given. We have planned plots with other players involving desecration of the church, and if I allowed every man jack in Midian to get their "rawr, lookatme, I'm SO EVIL" jollies off by violating the altar, etc., every time they took a notion, the people who've come to me with carefully thought out plots involving the same would lose some of the impact of their plot. Part of the job of a faction leader, IMO, is looking after the interests of players who have come to you in good faith (no pun intended).
For example, a plot was played out just last night involving an altar desecration, but the players involved talked with me first, got my input, and we came up with something good that worked for everyone.
Plus, where the parish is concerned, there are far too many random players who think the church is an easy target. Consent can help nip plot problems in the bud. I've had one or two people approach me about desecrations, kidnapping the father, whatever, but they want to get away with it, with no repercussions, because they think "church" and equate it with a flock of hand-wringing pushovers. Unfortunately for them, this flock is led by an ex-con priest with a gun and a lousy temper. ;-) |
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| Aegyptia Elvehjem |
| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 1114
Location: incognito or Bangkok Records
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| Father Eamon wrote: |
| Unfortunately for them, this flock is led by an ex-con priest with a gun and a lousy temper. ;-) |
*hides* I KNEW payback would be....hell. ;p
I see officers all the time as well, it's like any faction, more active at certain times of the day, I also know they are hot on the trail of some of KAOS' misdeeds, as well as the Shadaw Stalkers. And I think Jade/Camilla do a fine job and have for what, 2 years? There is no comparison to Midian as far as role play, the Crack Den does not even touch Midian's level of quality, but that is just my opinion. There is a very fine balance between being too hands on and not involved enough, I think Midian strikes the right balance there which allow us all freedom and integrity of role play. As long as we respect each other, we are all fine. Yeah, we can't always win or have our way, we have to give and take and so it should be.
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Last edited by Aegyptia Elvehjem on Fri May 09, 2008 12:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| Father Eamon |
| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 79
Location: St. Michael's Church, Midian City
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| Quote: |
| *hides* I KNEW payback would be....hell. ;p |
*laughs* I'm really looking forward to it. You guys are amazing RPers, from everything I've seen. It's going to be grand fun. ;-)
| Quote: |
| Yeah, we can't always win or have our way, we have to give and take and so it should be. |
Aye, perfectly put. |
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| Aegyptia Elvehjem |
| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:47 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 1114
Location: incognito or Bangkok Records
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| Father Eamon wrote: |
| Quote: |
| *hides* I KNEW payback would be....hell. ;p |
*laughs* I'm really looking forward to it. You guys are amazing RPers, from everything I've seen. It's going to be grand fun. ;-) |
That's sweet  , thanks, so are you guys, Guin was so much fun and a wonderful emoter, we are looking forward to getting our asses kicked by the clergy, we were lucky Bastian was in a giving mood last night. ;p
And FYI, we wired the church so you can hear the KAOS devil music 24/7 in stereo!
*kidding* 
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| Cennedi |
| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 7:08 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 29 Feb 2008
Posts: 6
Location: *looks around* you don't wanna know...
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| Charles Noble wrote: |
*runs by the MPD while no one is there and shoots out the glass windows*
*spray paints a giant penis on the mpd station while no one is there*
*plants bugs inside the front section of the mpd station while no one is there*
*sets up claymores on mpd doors while no one is there*
*tosses grenade through MPD front doors smashing security moniters and cameras and adding burn damage to walls and trashing the window to the front desk and causing debris to cut off the front office and restricting access to the station itself*
the front of the mpd is public remmember?
suddendly dosn't sound so appealing does it?
lucky gosh I need to ask consent to do that eh or it would be never ending.
Simple illustration cutting through all the red tape..
So I would say its fair to use "limited" force in a "public" area such as MPD/MCMC/SP/PH/TZ/4HM etc...
but limited would be nothing that can't be repaired with a bit of polyfiller and is not going to affect day to day running of the building..
i.e grenades =NO
bombs=NO
Assult cannons=NO
flame throwers=NO
pistols=yes
swords/knives=yes
smoke bombs=yes
deliberate damage to property or damage beyond a small bullet hole in the wall requires consent period, no busting through locked doors no matter if you shoot the locks or not.
Smashing windows = no too, cuz hell why do I have to rp out dealing with this damage when I'm not even online???
You break it you get on an NPC then send me a note card three hours long of you roleplaying repairing it. Cuz I don't see why I have to deal with the shit you caused if you didn't ask me.
Simple enough, ask consent, if you don't ask consent then don't send a notecard saying
tee hee hee I fucked your place up, cuz i'll void it simply.
send me a notecard showing me you are oocly responsible for your actions.
I.E "We assulted someone in your bar, It got trashed, we assumed you called out someone to repair the damage, heres my NC of my NPC fixing everything"
that i'll have no problem with.
rather then
"oh yeah we got in a fight and trashed your bar, sucks to be you"
either ask my consent, or make sure you fix what you fuck up.
If you do neither then it's voided cuz I shouldn't have to rp fixing up your mess or even dealing with it when I wasn't consulted.
I know someone is going to say that's somehow unfair, but yeah, consideration people. This shit could happen everyday.
I think asking consent is a basic curtosiy that stops it happening everyday, or rping repairing the damage goes someway to deter people from making it an every day occurance.
Don't hamper the running of my ic bussiness just cuz you want to have a shoot out in the public area.
ask consent or play the NPC Repair forfiet card. Either of those are done I'm happy for ya to tear up the place, btw I'll only give consent if it's worth my while, so may have to have NPC repair forfiet ready 
"I aint got time to rp a forfiet"
yeah well neither have I, so don't wipe your shit off on my doorstep less you prepared to clean it up, cuz I don't have the time to clean your poop off the welcome mat either |
I seriously agree with charles on this one. A little restraint is nice, whether the business owner/faction leader is ther or not to be asked consent. For example, some time back I had somebody come in and be his normally irritating self and then as he left, casually chucked a grenade in to my bar. I immeadiately voided this as it woudl cause structural damage to my bar resulting in large amounts of money to be spent to fix it up as well as interrupting the Rp that was currently going on there. Bullet holes, sword marks in teh wall, broken bottles, all fine and dandy. But I would really be pissed if I got an offline saying "Your bar has been burnt to the ground" Given that the MB IS below ground, but thats not the point |
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| Aegyptia Elvehjem |
| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 1114
Location: incognito or Bangkok Records
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| Father Eamon wrote: |
| There's open consent for minor damage in the church--blood stains, weird leavings, etc.--as long as people pick up their prims when we're done reacting/cleaning it up. And I usually give consent to major damage as long as I'm asked first (mostly to make sure it's not going to interfere with another plot) and as long as the structural integrity of the church remains (IOW, as long as we've got walls, doors, ceiling and floor when you're done). |
Bangkok is pretty much the same, though the very small secret radio broadcasting room is hidden always.
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(Pera Sutekh, twin sis of Chigaru) BIO!>Pera
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Last edited by Aegyptia Elvehjem on Sun May 11, 2008 8:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| Shilandar Deledda |
| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 300
Location: Wherever the trail leads
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Indeed. Hmm, well I think I put this up already, but lessee just in case....
Each place, as we all have different preferences even when agreeing on the facts underlying an issue, will likely have their own rules on how far damage is or isn't allowed to go. That's generally up to the faction leader, but in general unless you're going to really demolish or try to go for faction secrets of a sort, I'm personally never against a little mess. Note, a little. Not half the place being turned upside down when you return.
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"In this world everyone is either played, or playing with someone else. Be it their body, mind, heart, or soul. Live your life the way that makes you happy, because you never know when it will be snuffed out."
- Chi Sutekh, twin brother of Pera Sutekh |
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