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| OOC Consent for Faction HQs |
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| AlegriaDagostino |
 Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:42 pm Post subject: OOC Consent for Faction HQs |
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Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 95
Location: Mostly MPD. Chasing the Creepies. You know who you are.
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Ok...I get why this rule was made. But I really think it interferes with good RP. Let us imagine for a moment that we actually do live in a post-apocalyptic urban setting, and we find ourselves on occasion faced with one or more deadly weapons wielded by an enemy. Is it not realistic to expect that the scene could well end up playing out inside a public building that isn't managed by you?
Example. Recently, a fight broke out in the MCMC. The circumstances surrounding it were realistic, (except for the whole vampire bit), and it's entirely possible a fight could happen IN a hospital. A grenade was detonated, shots fired, blood everywhere, a real mess. This COULD happen if (god forbid) it was real life. But alas, the entire few hours of RP was voided because a faction leader wasn't contacted to obtain permission for the fight in the MC.
Doesn't this bother ANYONE else?
Another scene which could have potentially been an issue...
MPD was fighting someone by the waterfront. After taking heavy fire, they retreated into the peep show to regroup and replan. The perp smashed into the peep show and the fighting ensued inside. This could very well happen! Thankfully, the Dolls were defunct at the time and there was no consent to be obtained to make a mess in the peep show.
So, is it possible to get this rule revised?
I can see not just busting into an HQ that wouldn't normally be publicly available. I can understand locked doors. But if a scene would allow for a particular venue to be breached feasibly, I think that should be permitted. ESPECIALLY public buildings. It's entirely possible that the Chief of the MC would receive acall that the MC had been damaged, or that the sushi bar had been shot up in crossfire, or that someone tossed a grenade into the hotel. Do you know how many times people come into the PD and pull guns, start shooting, etc? It's a public place.
I'd like to see some good discussion on this.
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| CezWriter |
| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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Location: Staring at you from the catwalks...
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Well, actually I do believe that the Catwokers sushi bar WAS blown up without Duis consent (I was working there when a grenade was thrown into it). So yeah... it does happen that public places gets destroyed without owners consent.
I wouldnt like a non-consential attack at our den though... since its a place for cats and kittens to relax and hang out. We have enough people walking in to cause a fight without having to deal with bombs and other stuff 
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| mycaling |
| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: OOC Consent for Faction HQs |
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007
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Location: Midian City
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As I see it, it all goes back to the rule of consent.
What it means in the case of the MCMC incident, it fundamentally affected an entire group (and city) with the RP without consent. People couldn't get medical treatment, the doctors and nurses couldn't do their RP, etc. They may have just as well voided it, but they went along. As did Dui, apparently.
It isn't that it's unrealistic - it's that it simply is not that difficult to just ask quickly before causing damage to a faction HQ. Faction leaders and business owners are reasonable people, and don't bite ;)
I'd suggest that if people aren't online to ask, move the fight through an OOC agreement outside to a neutral location.
My two cents on it.
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Lucine "Lucy" Ponnier - Midian City Dolls |
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| Golyth Carillon |
| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Mar 2007
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Location: Hapeville GA
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Hasn't the Sushi Bar been blown up like a bizzilion times now? *grins*
I can see why the RP would be voided out because the "Leader" of the MCMC faction was unavailable but as far as the RP of the medical personel being disrupted... they could always resort to street side facilities or even use on of the less used areas for such things i.e. the subway or the underground area near Zoe's..
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| J8 Skall |
| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Mar 2007
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Location: God knows.....Follow the trail of blood
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In some cases it does, in some it doesn't...
The TZ, SP, MC, PH etc being no fire zones is ridiculous. However a factions 'inner sanctum', backrooms, locked doors and things should all be off limits without OOC consent from the most senior OOC gangmember online at the time, and no major damage (beyond a busted lock), can be done without faction leader consent, likewise any violation approved by a gang member should be minor, not a full occupation etc.
Thtas how I would structure things, theres a balance betwene having unrealistic safezones, and the threat of peopl ebeing bugged a silly amountof times, or a faction base beign overrun at a quiet time, where we could pretend theres lots of gang members asleep inside or whatever...
It need, in my opinion, alittle adjustment, but the basic concept is sound.
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Jay Skall
(All arguements [or discussion points] stated above are the player's opinion only, they are not truth from on high, the subversive whisperings of satan or the grunted rumblings of a troll... Incase you were struggling with the concept...) |
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| AlegriaDagostino |
| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 11 Sep 2007
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Location: Mostly MPD. Chasing the Creepies. You know who you are.
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Thanks, Jay...you helped reword what I was trying to say...that PUBLIC places where fights could so easily happen should have a revision on the consent rule.
It can happen...if people started a war in a hospital, no one would stop and call the Hospital Administrator to ask if they minded.
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"The worst kind of evil is the evil that thinks it is good." - Collin Matthews
http://alsmidian.blogspot.com
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| mycaling |
| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:03 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007
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Location: Midian City
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| AlegriaDagostino wrote: |
| It can happen...if people started a war in a hospital, no one would stop and call the Hospital Administrator to ask if they minded. |
But by that token, it could about any place. No back rooms, no faction HQ would be safe. I see what you are saying, but I don't see how it overrules the notion of consent.
In the Peep Show, the Dolls HQ, we literally have no private area except for a small office. Public as a bar, it's very difficult for us to operate without it should something force us to close. (And for the record, the first night the Peep Show was open, we got held up and shot at. I let it all happen, though I wasn't asked.)
Anyway, it's far from perfect either way. I just really have a hard time understanding why it's hard to send a quick IM. If it's not okay, then move the scene, chaos continues as planned.
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Lucine "Lucy" Ponnier - Midian City Dolls |
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| AlegriaDagostino |
| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:25 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 11 Sep 2007
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Location: Mostly MPD. Chasing the Creepies. You know who you are.
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Public places are far different than inner sanctums. And it's not always possible to send a quick IM if the faction leaders aren't online. Also, moving the patients for which the RP was intended to OUTside the MC didn't make sense whatsoever. The perp had come into the MC to finish off what he'd started...his victims were already in hospital beds.
But the specifics don't matter. The point is, it's highly likely that public places would be possible venues for fights, whereas hidden HQ's, high-security inner offices, reinforced doors, etc, would not.
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"The worst kind of evil is the evil that thinks it is good." - Collin Matthews
http://alsmidian.blogspot.com
Flickr! http://flickr.com/photos/27720020@N05/ |
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| Rin Tae |
| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:33 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 21 Jul 2007
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Location: Mostly around the clinic in apoc
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Actually I´m all for dealing with fights in public places ICly. That means .. the bar security should try to stop it or the faction members come in and try to throw those causing trouble out. Of course, this is a problem, when no faction member is available to react to it, but then it just needs a bit of holding back by the fighters. They don´t have to pull out flamethrowers and granades. But everything going above a occasional fight should be only done with the owners consent.
But as I have written before ... being told that your place has been trashed while you´ve ben offline is the thing that gets people upset. Of course, public places are public, but there is still someone taking care of them and those needs to be respected and not simply expected to clean the mess up after everybody had their fun.
ICly the areas are of course free to fight in (in my opinion) ... but this topic is more about OOC behaviour for me.
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well ... that should work |
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| Mitchell Howlett |
| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:13 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 11 Feb 2008
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| J8 Skall wrote: |
In some cases it does, in some it doesn't...
The TZ, SP, MC, PH etc being no fire zones is ridiculous. However a factions 'inner sanctum', backrooms, locked doors and things should all be off limits without OOC consent from the most senior OOC gangmember online at the time, and no major damage (beyond a busted lock), can be done without faction leader consent, likewise any violation approved by a gang member should be minor, not a full occupation etc.
Thtas how I would structure things, theres a balance betwene having unrealistic safezones, and the threat of peopl ebeing bugged a silly amountof times, or a faction base beign overrun at a quiet time, where we could pretend theres lots of gang members asleep inside or whatever...
It need, in my opinion, alittle adjustment, but the basic concept is sound. |
I can totally see the that happening and that it would be all well and good. Here's my only question though. What happens when you're dealing with a Faction leader that won't let you do anything? Case in point. I had a character kidnapped by the Yaks (Sorry Sakito and the yaks) And As I was being held captive I had asked if I could do some minor damage to the glass box that they had... keeping in mind that my character was a neko and had claws and the like. The Faction Leader said no. The box was indestructable.
My point is if a faction leader isn't willing to rp a simple box being scratched or perhaps cracked.. (Not that it can't be replaced.) then what makes you think that we'll have a uniformity amongst the Faction leaders?
This occurred granted in the back room.. but c'mon... a box? |
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| Rin Tae |
| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 21 Jul 2007
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Location: Mostly around the clinic in apoc
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Hmm .. a few days ago the clinic got quite demaged in a fight ... upstairs in the lab and downstairs the entrance area. So it is possible to do it and it is fun for those involved and at the same time still doasn´t interfare much with the public part and it´s function.
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well ... that should work |
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| Charles Noble |
| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:56 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 749
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*runs by the MPD while no one is there and shoots out the glass windows*
*spray paints a giant penis on the mpd station while no one is there*
*plants bugs inside the front section of the mpd station while no one is there*
*sets up claymores on mpd doors while no one is there*
*tosses grenade through MPD front doors smashing security moniters and cameras and adding burn damage to walls and trashing the window to the front desk and causing debris to cut off the front office and restricting access to the station itself*
the front of the mpd is public remmember?
suddendly dosn't sound so appealing does it?
lucky gosh I need to ask consent to do that eh or it would be never ending.
Simple illustration cutting through all the red tape..
So I would say its fair to use "limited" force in a "public" area such as MPD/MCMC/SP/PH/TZ/4HM etc...
but limited would be nothing that can't be repaired with a bit of polyfiller and is not going to affect day to day running of the building..
i.e grenades =NO
bombs=NO
Assult cannons=NO
flame throwers=NO
pistols=yes
swords/knives=yes
smoke bombs=yes
deliberate damage to property or damage beyond a small bullet hole in the wall requires consent period, no busting through locked doors no matter if you shoot the locks or not.
Smashing windows = no too, cuz hell why do I have to rp out dealing with this damage when I'm not even online???
You break it you get on an NPC then send me a note card three hours long of you roleplaying repairing it. Cuz I don't see why I have to deal with the shit you caused if you didn't ask me.
Simple enough, ask consent, if you don't ask consent then don't send a notecard saying
tee hee hee I fucked your place up, cuz i'll void it simply.
send me a notecard showing me you are oocly responsible for your actions.
I.E "We assulted someone in your bar, It got trashed, we assumed you called out someone to repair the damage, heres my NC of my NPC fixing everything"
that i'll have no problem with.
rather then
"oh yeah we got in a fight and trashed your bar, sucks to be you"
either ask my consent, or make sure you fix what you fuck up.
If you do neither then it's voided cuz I shouldn't have to rp fixing up your mess or even dealing with it when I wasn't consulted.
I know someone is going to say that's somehow unfair, but yeah, consideration people. This shit could happen everyday.
I think asking consent is a basic curtosiy that stops it happening everyday, or rping repairing the damage goes someway to deter people from making it an every day occurance.
Don't hamper the running of my ic bussiness just cuz you want to have a shoot out in the public area.
ask consent or play the NPC Repair forfiet card. Either of those are done I'm happy for ya to tear up the place, btw I'll only give consent if it's worth my while, so may have to have NPC repair forfiet ready 
"I aint got time to rp a forfiet"
yeah well neither have I, so don't wipe your shit off on my doorstep less you prepared to clean it up, cuz I don't have the time to clean your poop off the welcome mat either
Last edited by Charles Noble on Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| J8 Skall |
| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 788
Location: God knows.....Follow the trail of blood
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Not what I said, what I mentioned wasn't a licence to sit cheat.
Scenario wise look at it like this.
Wolf of Hounds abducts a gal, into the backroom and is seen by a white knight type.
White knight IMs the two other concerned parties and gets an okay for a rescue.
White knight asks the Wolf of the Hounds to break the door open, gets an okay (from the most senior gangmember online), and does it (in a realistic IC manner, not a ninja kick), door is broken, roleplay finished.
Wolf fixes door, as it was a short term roleplay.
Now this isnt a license to sit cheat, as the person has to gain OOC consent from the parties involved, and further okay how he gets into the HQ. Under current rules the conflict stops at the doors to the Pool Hall, and requires Nerio's okay to happen, in realisty it's such a minor point it shouldn' concern him. If any real damage is done to the hall ofcourse it needs okay, but I think most faction members can be trusted with the technicalities of their bases and roleplay around it.
For instance when Jay got into the Breed HQ for a brief time, Chandra was on, so I okayed the roleplay with her first, but if she wasn't, Jay couldn't have been so opportunistic, the roleplay would have been held up, and the perfectly able roleplayers inside (Niko and Kitten) couldnt, technically of okayed my entrance.
As it happened Chandra didnt care, just thanked me for asking and said it was Kitten's call, but really it illustrates my point about trusting your faction members re minor incursions, and having OOC rules that block damage and breaking and entering without any consent... Thereby still protecting against the scenarios outlined above.
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Jay Skall
(All arguements [or discussion points] stated above are the player's opinion only, they are not truth from on high, the subversive whisperings of satan or the grunted rumblings of a troll... Incase you were struggling with the concept...) |
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| Charles Noble |
| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 18 Feb 2007
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yes but in the instance the pool is used for a shoot out and no hounds online what then?
to move out of there because of consent rules seems a little silly, I think the forfiet card takes care of that.
bassically, make sure YOU somehow make everything right since YOU broke it all in the first place.
that is to say
DON'T expect the faction leader that wasn't consulted to deal with your damage |
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| J8 Skall |
| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 788
Location: God knows.....Follow the trail of blood
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I would say the public bar area of the PH, or any other establishment is okay to brawl in, damage like a broken bottle or the like is meaningless.
Just have the fight in the area, you can't extend it to the backrooms (no hounds online to ask), and any damage is minor like a broken bottle or soemthing (just keep emoting sensible), just cant chuck grenades, bombs, plasma shots whatever the hell else people have on their belts nowadays about.
I'm talking normal fisticuffs, not a full blown war, although I admit to some people it seems one and the same thing.
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Jay Skall
(All arguements [or discussion points] stated above are the player's opinion only, they are not truth from on high, the subversive whisperings of satan or the grunted rumblings of a troll... Incase you were struggling with the concept...) |
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