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| DaveDoowangle |
 Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:29 am Post subject: Rather Important - Undercover/spies/moles |
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Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 134
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Well the MPD has several people wanting to do undercover work.
I know various orginizations have been wanting to plant spies.
The question is: "how do we handle this?". It would seem to me that we have only two options here.
A= If you join two groups, people will see it in your profile, not tell you anything, and the roleplay is dead.
B= If the person is only a member of the group being spyed on, then the other faction will know absolutely everything. Roleplay from spied on faction gets killed off and thwarted at every turn. At the very least, the other faction will have an un-realistic amount of information.
Before saying everything regarding this is fine and dandy, search deep within yourself and ask: "are the majority of players responsible enough to disseminate a realistic amount of information?"
In real life, spy operations would take months to prepare and execute. Documents would have to be forged, ranks would have to be gained, privileged network user accounts and passwords would have to be earned/stolen. All of that has to be doen without arousing any suspicion mind you (if an orginization finds out a spy exists, all information gained is rendered useless as it will promptly be altered/hidden/scrapped).
My only solution to this is to have the faction leaders OOC'ly work things out. The leaders would be informed as to the purpose of the spy (spying for "all information" wouldnt be practical or feasible... things like "upcoming raids and targets" or "most wanted targets" would be declared). The faction leader is not told the identity of the spy. Information is passed directly from leader to leader based upon the spy's faction rank (a low level hound would only recieve generic information such as "a drug deal is about to go down". Specifics such as location, time, and who is buying/selling would be restricted to the higher ranks).
What are your thoughts on how to hande undercovers/spies? |
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| Charles Noble |
| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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I would like the whole thing done ICLY with little to no OOC info being used. It makes it so much more exciting and dangerous if its all done perfectly IC.
SPIES.
Make the FACTION group list invisible. Only people with in the groups should know who is in the groups. That said, the group list should never be used as IC infomation. Unless that group is an officially paid body.. Even then all you can say is... This person is on the MPD payrole, The MCMC Payrole , the Merc Payrole etc... you can determine that they earn more than a lower ranking person, but not exactly what they do... You can really only report what you observe IC, anything more than that....
you can't.
There are a few groups on my profile that are invisible. I know theres a few factions such as MERC's that are invisible...Midian City law is not. Neither are the catwalkers or the hounds or the nightbreed. I'm always of the belief that all groups should be invisible so that people have to take someones IC word for something.. they can be suspicious if they like... but things such as opening doors in faction HQ's would quell this.. why would a non hound have the key to the hounds lair ...etc...
REPORTING OF INFOMATION IC
Make reporting of findings compulsary IC in open chat... even if it is to a middle man... because that middle man can also be followed.. course you can set up secret rendevouz in places... so long as its all roleplayed out , and people have a chance to observe x talking to y and handing over packages to person z.... its all good..
((that means no pm, no notecard, if a note card is handed over... then a Tape or Piece of paper should be handed over IC for all around to see..I know people roleplay out telephone calls in PM, but Their Side of the conversation should still be heard, and if the spy contact calls them during the middle of a conversation, they should have their telephone ring.... I believe we should take "bugs" out of the equation.. as they just record everything, If you are gonna spy via just recording, that's pretty poor roleplay... you should at least give some sign that you have pressed record or something... if you are consistantly recording, then you should pass ALL your logs to your spy master, not Just "highlights" . ))
Whispering is a pm activity, you should feel free to whisper to someone with out it being overhead, but by the same token, things that are "whispered" to you should not be able to be recorded unless you have a microphone in your ear and OOC info should be totally disregarded, the spy masters ((faction leaders)) should ,by virtue of being a faction leader, be ablde to determine which infomation is achieved one hundred percent IC'ly ..and which info to ignore...
Example ...
Spy master (((how did you get this info?))
Spy ((I looked at the group list ))
Spy master ((sorry can't use it... find out IC and report back))
If a spy does a good job at inflitration, and works their way up the rank structure of the oposing faction, good job.... if they happen to be followed, and caught icly diseminating infomation... too bad..
OOC PROOF OF INTEL
the ic info exchange should be notecarded as evidence , but the "spies" name removed from the notecard, and handed oocly to the person who is being acted against.... to say, yeah there is a spy, this is what was said to me, ((recorded conversations between spy and person being spied on would give away the spies identidy, so don't use those logs, just use what the spy said to spy master))
SPY PUNISHEMENT
I would put in a spy clause though.. as spying is a very dangerous game
If you are caught red handed... you should recieve some SERIOUS punishment... as its not likely... you would just "walk" away from such a thing. Like when Joining a faction, you sign an ooc waver of sorts....saying you accept what ever punishment the faction deems worthy
for example.. a beating that puts you into a coma for a week and restricted to hospitial.. for that whole time, and of course... people aint gonna forgive ya.. you'll probablly consistantly get beaten up by the faction you snitched on for the rest of your midian life.... If that's not what you want. don't play the spy game.. In reality you would sleep with the fishes. So here its getting off lightly.
DISAVOWED
A spies life is a lonely one. A faction will never own up to owning spies, spies should be aware that their discovery and punishment will more than likely not cause revenge attacks as it would show that they are guilty of using spies. Though there would be exceptions to this of course.... If I had spies, I'd disavow knowledge of them...but others may not.
NEUTRAL SPIES
Also remmeber , for all those doing undercover work... you think you have all bases covered.. think that you know who to watch your mouth around?
Remmeber there are mercenaries, and the former rats, and numerous other non affiliated people through out the city who may be monitering you, following you, watching who you speak to, listening into your conversations...
DOUBLE AGENTS
Spy masters need to be aware of people offering their spying services.. It may be that they are feeding you false infomation....
Paranoia is part and parcel of the spy game, and it is a dangerous game indeed.. this puts spy masters in a tricky situation, If they act on the info the spy has given them, they may be flushing the spy out ... if they don't act, the enemy may succeed the goal... and there is the posibility the agent has been lied to deliberately to make the spy master suspect the agent is playing for the other team, thus neutralising his own spy in the process..
Also faction leaders oocly working things out would take away so many of these elements.. A spy is only as good as their skill... If they make dumb mistakes and get caught well, spying is obviously not for them..
The faction leaders working it out oocly just makes uncatchable spies, who probablly don't warrent being uncatchable... leave it up to roleplay to decide.. IC all the way.. the only OOC info needed is when somebody OOCly challenges the IC knowledge you have gained
Spied on person ((how could your character possibbly know whats going down here tonight?))
Spy Master ((my spy told me, here is our conversation, Hands over notecard))
Spied On Person ((damn)) |
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| DaveDoowangle |
| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 134
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the problem is still the same regardless of punishment... people WILL use the groups list.
and to not have the groups listed or have some sort of indication could very well destroy more rolpelays than spying creates.
were damned if we do, damned if we dont. |
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