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| Super Strength in Midian |
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| How strong should people be allowed to be? |
| As strong as a single man? 500 Pounds (226.796 Kg) |
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41% |
[ 16 ] |
| As strong as two men? 1000 Pounds (453.592 Kg) |
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43% |
[ 17 ] |
| As strong as Three men? 1500 Pounds (680.388 Kg) |
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10% |
[ 4 ] |
| Four? 2000 Pounds (907.184 Kg) |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| Five? 2500 Pounds (1133.980 Kg) |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| Ten? 5000 Pounds (2267.96 Kg) |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 39 |
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| Ixion Laperriere |
 Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: Super Strength in Midian |
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Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 78
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I wanted to get the general community feedback on how much super-strength we want in Midian. There is a lot of super strength around and I'd to work towards a consensus on how strong is super strong. I have no personal problem with say 2-3 times as strong as a man. That is strong enough to flip a car with relative ease. What do you think? Lets say that man strength is being able to lift 500 pounds. Now, obviously this is someone who is in good athletic shape and who is big and strong. Most people are in the 100-300 pound strength category. Twice as strong lets you overturn a mid-sized car, three times as strong would let you overturn something like a hummer. We are talking being able to lift around 1000 for two times, and 1500 for three times. What's fair? Mind you, most the people who have any degree of super-strength should be hiding it and only using it when there are no prying eyes. This type of thing is effectively a masquerade breech for both the werewolves and the breed, though I am not sure what type of hiding in plain sight bio-mechs are supposed to do.
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| Janine Whetmore |
| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 18
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| I think people are bigger and stronger now then they were when I was young. At least they sure seem to be getting bigger which would make them stronger too, so it would seem natural that in another 50 years or so people would be even bigger and stronger still, especially if the life they lived required them to be stronger so the 2-3 times strength probably wouldn't be out of the question. |
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| Deets Carroll |
| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 281
Location: According to this map, I'm over there somewhere.
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I think your estimates of strength are off.
It's open to discussion what anyone might mean by 'lift', since it could mean a lot of things, but the current olympic records are approximately:
Clean and Jerk: 580 lb
Snatch: 476 lb
(Bench press world record is 715lbs for an unassisted lift, but I would argue that the Olympic events are a better overall measure of what you could lift on the street.)
So, let's say today's top-calibre weightlifter can 'lift' 500lbs.
Regardless of whether we're talking Olympic athlete or world-record powerlifter, please note that these guys are NOT also competing in the sprints, or the marathon, or fencing, or gymnastics. They're super-specialized, their bodies are really not general purpose athletic builds.
So, since the 'average healthy strong male' (if there is such a thing) is NOT an olympic weightlifter, and the average body is not devoted exclusively to maximizing lifting power, I'd suggest your basis of measurement should be more like, strength of one strong man = 300 lbs.
Perhaps this is nitpicking, but it may be relevant: when you claim you are twice as strong as normal, you probably couldn't flip a car.
Anyway, all that aside, I've never put a specific limit on Deet's strength. She's got milspec modifications which improve her muscle density and bone mass, and increased 'twitch' fibers for reaction time. How strong is she? As strong as she needs to be to put up a good RP fight. She won't likely be overpowered by a normal human, she at least has a chance against other enhanced characters -- I include vampires in this category -- and she won't out-muscle a mech (but she probably has the strength to use leverage and move a heavy mech).
Absolute strength is only a small part of most fights anyway. Deets would never brute-force an opponent, but she should be credible if she has to flip a large opponent over her hip, or block a punch. And super strength won't help much against a bullet or a blade  |
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| Fenris Skall |
| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 31
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Before I start I *Know* this post is going to cause resentment. However I *AM* posting it from an *official* standpoint. As a faction leader who has many,many,many restrictions imposed upon my faction by Jade the sim owner whose word *IS* law here. Also as a faction leader who has had the powers of my warform and my factions warform *Officially* approved by means of MCS recognition and general approval.
I would say the preciedent for the strongest strength in midian has been set by the war form skinwalkers.
firstly war form skinwalkers have an MCS meter to settle debates on who's the strongest pretty much instantly. Their claws will reduce you to zero with three hits.
Secondly war form skinwalkers are limited or officially capped to a fixed number of 10 members at any given time. Because of their extreme leathality, the ruling was "The group is small but powerfull, with great power comes great responsibility" etc... this would mark them as the Apex predators of the sim regardless or other contary claims. We are talking "Officially" here not "egotisitcally"
Thirdly war form skinwalkers are the only characters that require "extra, extra" consent due to their enormous power. A meeting with one is an almost gauranteed fatality.
Now their strength in warform is the ability to hurl a car . That's right, pick it up and fling it down the street, jaws able to snap through steel and claws able to rip through bulkheads with ease.Now given they have all these restrictions for being so powerful and nobody else does, and nobody else has the "Official" mcs to prove they have the same amount of strength potential. I think others should play less incredible strength unless they agree to the Same restrictions "Ten active biomechs in midian period, and extra extra consent rules, I.E clear indicators that a person wishes to be ripped apart or super powered by a mech...
As that is not going to happen. Then the mechs/cyber enchanced/extreme mutants/super nekos/super vampires should downplay their strength to maybe just twice as strong as an average male human.I am approaching from an "official" standpoint here. With the precidents that have already been set.I hear of people with superstrength and shake my head as they have not been approved by jade, whilst myself and my factions beast forms strength has been officially blessed with
1. MCS back to reinforce the claim of super strength
2. Limitation on numbers due to their incredible strength
3. Extra consent rules due to the fact they really,well "pwn" everything.
Make no mistake, an encounter with a warform skinwalker is fatal or at the very least "near" fatal. Even mating.
That said the greatest power level in midian won't affect you unless you specifically request it via a title indication.Jade has even commented her self that the skinwalkers are the most powerful therefore most restricted. So if the ability to hurl a car is the most powerful strength, then it is absolutely CLEAR that no one else possesses that strength.
Remmeber my faction is restricted with its warform power. It's not like you have to protect yourself from our warforms unless you invite a direct attack by means of a titler, and if you do invite direct attack then you should know what you are in for.As Jade made these restrictions. Its pretty clear what her view on superstrength is. There is a great difference between an ooc willing victim coming to us with a titler and a super strength powered being jumping a victim who ooc maybe doesn't actually "want" that rp. |
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| rena mayne |
| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 336
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Someone made the point that, if the general population found out about vamps and lycans, they'd be hunted and destroyed as a threat to humanity. In Blade Runner, super powered replicants WERE hunted and destroyed because they posed a threat to humanity. It seems to me, biomechs, androids or replicants would need to live with the same kind of secrecy vamps and lycans do because otherwise humans would just build more powerful weapons to destroy them.
All of the restrictions placed on the Vampires and the Lycans of the sim are there, and please, correct me if I'm wrong, to achieve balance. Built in weaknesses that make it possible for someone like me to co-exhist in the city with supernatural creatures. Logically, any faction that has beings that possess superhuman abilities should be subject to restrictions and built in weaknesses, just like the Lycans and the Vamps, in order to maintain the balance.
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| Lancer Oldrich |
| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 57
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Hopefully, in bandying these various amounts of how strong is "strong," everyone keeps in their mind these ought to be hard-capped upper limits. The upper limits of human strength cited here are achieved by months of hard training (especially weight lifting), followed by performance in contest conditions. It should be no different for other characters that claim their character has super strength.
e.g. You may be a bio-mech, but if your design spec isn't like Bender's from Futurama (design was as an industrial loader, as supposed to being more specialized, like military, recon, medic, etc.), I doubt you are capable of being able to maintain your upper limit for an extended period of time.
A vampire could achieve "upper limit" over a short period of time, but she is limited by how much blood they can expend (technically) in said period, as well as their supply. Adequate for quick bursts, but for a sustainable action over a long period of time? Ho ho ho.
Skinwalkers are what they are. I know even if I had an enhanced character that I consented to be a victim for a warform skinwalker, my game would not be to go to toe-to-toe in a strength fight; that's just plain stupid, and frankly, boring for the skinwalker.
Certainly, for those who have enhanced strength, if one is being shot at, distracted, been involved in strenuous activity (physical combat for instance) for that day, and/or dealt with the everyday stresses of living in this city, one's ability to achieve their potential maximum, much less maintain it for an extended period of time, would be compromised.
One other thing to note. Objects have uneven distribution of weight, in addition to their mass, so keep that in mind should you do decide to attempt something in-character. Any one who has had the experience of moving their own household items that "you know wasn't that heavy, or you didn't think would be that difficult" from one place to another can attest that sometimes, things aren't as easy as they appear to be.  |
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| Belial |
| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 76
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| Lancer Oldrich wrote: |
| The upper limits of human strength cited here are achieved by months of hard training |
Years, actually
I think the biggest issue with this topic is that your average person has no real understanding of the numbers they're tossing about. I have a friend who looks like someone glued steak to him, he's massive. He works with about 260lbs. Everyone always "has a friend" who works with over 400lbs, etc etc etc.
Let me tell ya, I'm no small guy, and have put up 300 twice, that's it, only twice. People have no idea what 500lbs really is, it's an abstract number, nothing more.
I believe the average able to lift for a man is 180-220 pounds. |
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| Aegyptia Elvehjem |
| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 1134
Location: incognito or Bangkok Records
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Would it really be so bad if everyone, and I mean everyone, kept to strengths not to exceed that of one very strong healthy male? I think it would make RP so much more fun and challenging and then everyone would be able to 'play' with everyone and no telling who would win from one day to the next. I mean, there would be no more, 'why even try, bye' situations.
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| Hayate Karu |
| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 19 May 2008
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| You know i would love to see a skinwalker throw a car:) but of course i know such a thing would never happen. But for me i have to agree with Rena that if you want super what ever then you really need a weakness for extra super power you have. Such has with great str most time the person is not so quick and much slower reaction. But of course with the skinwalkers thats a bit different. So if the person has no weakness to go with there uber powers, as Pera said whats the point with me figthing them. But i'm about to go off track and i would say that 1x or 2x for all non skinwalkers. maybe with a mech it could be more but i would think they would move like a turtle. |
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| Debra Charron |
| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 421
Location: Trying to get the furniture to rezz in my apartment
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Deb is an "created" person. Her play on "superstrength" is that altho she appears to be an athletic female - she's in fact as strong as an athletic male. Thats about as far as I personally care to take strength and still maintain that "Bladerunner" feel.
To each his or her own tho. If I want to play on a higher level of Uberness, I log into City of Heroes and get my "fix"
I do agree with Rena on this; most vamp/lycan superstrong characters would be wise to exercise public discretion about it. There are just too many Mad Scientists who'd pay a bounty for fresh samples of Teh Ubermensh.
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| Ixion Laperriere |
| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:27 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 78
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Well, when I said lift I meant be able to pick up off the ground and walk awkwardly with it. And not for a long period of time. A good estimate would be around being able to move reasonably carrying 250 pounds the is an easy to carry load. I just used around 500 pounds because that was a nice round number. But yes Deets, your right, even an athletic person could have a hard time lifting that. It really depends on your body type and the bulk of the item your lifting. I'd also argue that there are different types of strength, gymnasts cannot do huge amounts of weight, but their ability to maintain their body's and control their body weight is phenomenal. There are those who have a lot of muscle and their are others who have a tremendous amount of Stamina. You could also consider the fact that you can be strong, but not very powerful.
Arbitrarily I picked 500 pounds off of what, I believe it was the Greeks used to think. A man in good shape should be able to bench his body weight and squat twice it. In retrospect I should of chosen 440 pounds because it is easier to convert into metric.
As for a little clarification about vampires. Typically vampires can use blood to increase their strength for a moment. Though, in order to be twice or three times as strong as a person I would guess that is an elder Nosferatu or Bruja that can do that using Vigor. They aren't run of the mill vampires.
As for Fenris comment about Werewolves in Gaaru form, my only advice to you is run, run, run, run, run, run. They are like furry little Cuisinarts.
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| Nikodemus |
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 21 Feb 2008
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| I for my part had to deal with the problem "How strong am I" since am vamp as well and just sticked to the VtM system to balance that out for me...this makes Niko lift a 180Kg without him falling over dead after carrying it through the town..I think thats not too uber, but allows him to be though a bit stronger than the average human. |
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| Chandra Meehan |
| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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Location: Midian (Cementary - would love to rest in peace, but am not allowed to)
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okay this really is just a basic question: But what advantage would I have if I were able to spin a car? *raises eyebrow* none that I can think off... So I am quite content with just being regular human kinda strength...
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| Mordag McCallen |
| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:16 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 399
Location: Bunker
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For lack of lower options I picked lowest.
For Mordag, she is sorta all around warrior, I think the day when she effectivley lifted even 220 (100kg) pounds in the field was quite a good day for her. Oh yes, she can carry another soldier from the field. She wont run while at it, she wont even shot by one hand while at it and she sure will feel it when she drops the load. Bah, come on people, who needs superstrength? Trouble of this poll is anyway based in people reading this more as average strength than the top. And there, I say, it would have to be very rare.
In fact, ever tried combat on perfectly human terms for your roleplay? It is actualy fun.
On the other hand, look at your avatars, none of female looks that would get anywhere high and most of males look fit for decathlon if anything, definitly not top lifters.
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| Gray Fox |
| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 29
Location: Iraq (For now)
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Glad you said most, there, Mordag.
Jackson is a big fother mucker. He's probably one of the most built 'normal' humans around. He's got no genetic enhancements. I would say Jackson's bench is around 320 pounds, but keep in mind it reflects his size and mass. He's not as fast as say, a vampire, but he will put a hurtin' on you if he lands a punch.
The problem I've faced in RP combat is it seems like the normal humans I've beaten have always been not only faster than Jackson, but also stronger. Even those with bulky sizes have an insane amount of speed disproportionate to their form. Godmodding is an obvious fault that many of us may face from time to time because our opponents obviously do not want their characters injured or dead. The elite among Midian has grown more and more at fault to this than they think, and it's quite tiring.
In closing I say ... 'I pity the fool who don't like mah suit.' |
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