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| What modern arms and armor should we find in Midian? |
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| October Hush |
 Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 719
Location: Rooftops, Catwalks and Streets in Midian City
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| SerinaLoring wrote: |
| If you get hit by a bullet, a certain amount of force will be transmitted to your armor. Even if your armor is impenetrable, the kinetic energy of the bullet will still need someplace to go. As I mentioned in a previous post, a decent handgun from today's technology (.44 Magnum) at close range will knock a large man off his feet. The force felt inside the armor will be a function of how well it is able to distribute it across your body, but it has to go SOMEWHERE. |
I realize that the tv program "Mythbusters" is not a paragon of scientific method, but...they did basically debunk the whole "being blown away by a bullet" myth that's prevelant in popular movies and television. So, someone wouldn't be literally knocked off of their feet, but certainly the pain and trauma would most likely cause them to stop standing.
But yes, I agree with the rest of what you say, the energy has to go somewhere.
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| Charles Noble |
| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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The energy goes to heaven, but I guess it depends on what kind of round you being hit with as to how far you fly back.
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| Kc Cuttita |
| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 16 Mar 2008
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You know, if nobody wore any body armor the doctors and medics in MCMC would have a lot more rp and the factions might care more about how safe the MCMC is. If Midian is as cut off from the mainland as everyone keeps telling me, then anything brought into Midian through means other than a drop shipment from say one of the corporations would be far more valuable then what it would cost on the mainland. Heck even bullets would cost a lot.
Maybe if we made things more primitive, we could make a lot of our headaches go away. A bullet wound to a leg would probably end most gunfights instead of having your bullet bounce off my metal plates I'd fall down and hold my leg screaming for a doctor.
I can see how we could have leather coats and such for knife slash protection, but body armor doesn't make any sense to me at all. Heck Kc doesn't even carry a pocket knife, her best means of defense is to run as fast as she can. |
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| Aegyptia Elvehjem |
| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007
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Location: incognito or Bangkok Records
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I kinda agree Kc, I like to be a victim sometimes, but one that fights tooth and nail first, maybe even a chance of winning, but when I am approached by this god in body armor, I'm like, meh, why even bother trying? Reasonably, it only makes sense to run and that is not what my main character would do, so I tend not to even start fighting those types physically. I'd love to see Midian with no guns and fancy weapons at all, only knives and melee, would be interesting, but I do not argue for it because I know it will never happen.
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| Kc Cuttita |
| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 16 Mar 2008
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| I know but it might make a rock I throw a little more significant. It really sucks to have someone just stand there and laugh after I finally hit them after several attempts with a rock because they're body armor protected them. Maybe I need to find better rocks. |
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| Mordag McCallen |
| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Kc Cuttita wrote: |
| I know but it might make a rock I throw a little more significant. It really sucks to have someone just stand there and laugh after I finally hit them after several attempts with a rock because they're body armor protected them. Maybe I need to find better rocks. |
Truth be told, you have much better chance to hit my head with rock than anyone with gun in this city. It sounds fun RP in the end unlike bullets.
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| Lucca Staheli |
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:43 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 07 Dec 2007
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| I have read the forums and there is a lot of talk about what tech. would be avaible 50 years form now. And thats great but I mean and corret me if I'm wrong here but ain't midian supposed to be the slums? So even if this stuff is avalible technology wise and you have connections on the mainland. How the hell are people affording flame throwers and all the other stupid shit that appears cause it easily solves some problem in an rp. Seems like people have no intrest in creative solutions. They encounter a problem and BAM i'll find some weapon or technology to get around it. Just seems a little odd to me that midian is the only slums in exsistance where 90% of the people are rich, have all the conections in the world, are armed better than the military, and everyone isn't scared to die. My two cents.....all this tech. and weapons only serves to hurt the rp not enhance it. So for a society cut off from the rest of the world perhaps the tech level is much closer to modern day than we play it as. |
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| Charles Noble |
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:02 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 18 Feb 2007
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Some very good points Lucca, KC.
I think the fundemental problem is not even the tech par say its the "Win" attitude.
If more people played for the "fun" of the scene rather than trying to "Win" the scene, I'm sure a great deal of tech and uber characters would scale down.
Unfortunately that's not going to happen. Writting a rule against uberness and tech escalation is one thing, fairly easy to do... hard to enforce, seeing as how even the basic consent rule is oft flaunted and kicked to one side because it is somehow "inconvienant" to the players "win"
Changing the "win" mindset however is something that goes deeper, and won't change. |
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| Mordag McCallen |
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:44 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 15 Jan 2008
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As I like to say, UAC, the pinacle of mdoern war technology *worldwide* (means not only midian-wide) is outgunned and outteched in good 70% of our encounters and armed situations. Funny funny.
The top of laugh was when I emptied a magazine from my G36 into target on 2 meters distance and all bullets just bounced off the full armor without making a scratch and person inside noted "As I suspected, quite undergeared." And to add, the firing came after three notices to not move step closer with gun aimed at the person.
Not to mention teleporting neko. Better not comment here on personal teleporters.
Luckily for us, we wont be starting arms race and wont arm up just because others do. Because it is race that none can win.
And I am glad I am not only one noticing how frustrating it is that none fears to die. I simply call it abuse of consent rule from people involved. Even when people consent to participate in violent scene, which turns not in their favor, I have yet to meet:
1) Person who stops calling insults and taunting me to shot when I have gun aimed at his head from close distance.
2) Person who will think twice before pulling a gun when already being aimed at.
3) Person who minds their fingers cut off during torture.
4) Person who is not getting more orgasms the more interogation officer is doing harm. (Well, there I have to say I met one lovely prisoner who was quite scared even for getting cuffs, which I admired greatly.)
And yes, when someone is aiming at your head and you keep taunting, it is obvious consequence that the person will most likely blow your head off. Of course the one aiming the gun will come out as idiot, because (in this way abused) consent rule is blocking your trigger finger from pulling. Some people just needs to be reminded that consent is here for players and characters are oblivious to existence of such a rule. They shouldnt count on the fact that they cannot die without them signing it first.
Yet again - forum. I am probably telling this only to people who already know it, those that need to be told do not care at all.
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| Charles Noble |
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 18 Feb 2007
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The problem in midian is the escalation falls purely on one side of the fence.
Those here to "Win a game"
They are the people who have come from MPORPG's where the combat is scripted and indeed the goal of the game is to "Win"
This roleplay is text based. You can't win a text based roleplay, therefore logically the aim of the roleplay is not that of a game, but rather that of story telling.
Stories are subjective, some people enjoy three little pigs, some people enjoy a company of wolves. It's subjective what we "enjoy".
Therefore those we play with is also "subjective" we play with people who we feel are on the same mental wavelength, who enjoy the same stories as us, who at the end of the day we can enjoy telling stories "with" rather than "Against"
Now where you get the escalation in weapons and technology is where people say.
"I hate your stories, I think they are morally repugnant, therefore I'm going to -game- roleplay against you, by tech moding, power gaming etc"
of course some people then decide
"well if people are carrying guns and I want my story to be free from bullets I am going to make a character that bullets can't touch"
So the first guy goes "well if bullets can't touch him, I'll make lazers"
and so it goes, and so it goes, and so it goes.
Neither party are simply smart enough to realise that Escalation just leads to further escalation.
The only way to defeat it , is to simply drop the "game" and "win" perspective.
Adopt the "mutually fun story telling aspect"
If you are not here for fun with like minded people ((not saying all people have to think alike, just saying, find people of a like mind..))
Once you've grasped the concept that people enjoy playing with you if you promise to make a "fun story" for them.. then, only then do you win.
Personally I don't care if "Mister x the uber undefeatable has gotten away with it once more" and that's got someones ooc panties in a twist.
Who cares.. If they bug you that much, don't play with them. Ignore their actions.
Ignoring someone dosn't cause OOC drama. It avoids it.
Escalation on the other hand brings so many OOC ramifications it beggers belief to find that people are adopting this over simply ignoring a power gamer.
Personally someone throws a fireball at me... "whoosh it misses" and will continue to miss me as that kind of story to me is not what I am particularlly interested in.
And you can't fault me. I have the same choices in RP as I have in reality.
If I don't like a certian type of movie, then I don't have to sit through it. If I want to emulate for example [u]sin city[/u] and you want to emulate [u]ultimate showdown of ultimate destiny[/u], then I'm allowed to ignore it and will do so.
Escalation is not my problem. What ever makes people feel happy. My problem is when those characters feel they somehow have the right to affect mine because OOCLY they find my stories morally repugnant...
I don't care what kind of tech or super mutant power someone has. If they are [b]not[/b] playing my song as it were... then that power, tech or whatever they are throwing at me will fail..
Example, I'm going to have more respect for a girl throwing a rock at my head then I am some super ninja swinging a 20 foot sword at me. Simply because the rock thrower is.
A. Using their imagination... ((believe me the amount of people that think imagination is inventing something brand new rather than utilising what is already there is staggering))
B.Simply not attempting to power game me and showing me a degree of respect...
of course on saying this all heroes will now throw rocks at me so they can "win"... but remmeber I know who's out to co-write a mutually consentual fun story and who's out to "win the game".
like I said previously, It's a mind set thing. I used to be of the mind set in the early days. Now I find its not worth the bother. If you offer me a good scene, one thats better than "me will beat you up, and you will take it, because I morally have a problem with your story " then I won't be interested.. and amazingly all your super tech/powers will fail.
Of course I understand Mordag's point, if someone is blatently antagonising you and then flirting with the consent rule, the answer is obviously as Blatent.
Mute them.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with adopting that approach. If they really want to roleplay "with" you, they'll respect your view point and take a hit. If they want to roleplay "against" you, then they won't and you are just encouraging them to carry on doing whatever it is they are doing that pisses you off.
Bassically any player that says..
"you are ineffective against me unless you have ((lets say for example)) Kyrpotonite"
they are obviously of the "Win" mentality and therefore shouldn't be entertained unless it genuinely entertains you. It will always come down to subjectiveness... but next time a teleporting neko ((her words not mine)) comes by the bunker and taunts you and then refuses to be hit, simply be your own judge of roleplay. Ask your self
A. Am I having fun with this?
B. Is my character being -forced- into an ineffective situation.
C. Am I having to argue with this player oocly.
If its
A. No
B. Yes
C. Yes
then mute, void, ignore either works wonderfully. True you'll find roleplay is less frequent when looking for stuff you enjoy, but then its the risk you take..
More frequent but infinitely less satisfying roleplay?
Or less roleplay but infinitely more satisfying?
I choose the later, its of course up to everyone else to decide what they find enjoyable, and what they don't, but if they do chose the former, then one has to realise no discussion about tech or powers is going to change the over all outcome. People will still use what ever they like so long as they are persuing the "win" mindset.
Btw the consent rule dosn't stop you pulling the trigger, it just stops the bullet from hitting the target, but it also stops you having to deal with people taunting..
/me looks up at the legion tower and curses loudly "Mordag you are a fesking poo poo head"
Mordag Mcullen carries on with her journal, unable to hear the yelling from below due to a sudden blast of static from her ear communicator.
I don't have a problem with not roleplaying with certian people who have the "win" mentality. I'm not missing out on anything at all. I know it's just going to be a long drawn out messy battle with people telling me what I can and can't do oocly..
On the other hand people Of a like mind will encourage each other, "good move! XD " etc...
I know which roleplay experience I personally find more enjoyable.
I understand some may view this as the "ultimate cliques" but I'd rather lots of happy little groups. Than one big unhappy group. Ultimately thats the choice you are left with.
I'm happy... hope you're happy too.. |
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| Mordag McCallen |
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| Charles Noble wrote: |
| The problem ... more enjoyable. |
Goddamit. I will have to find some other topic, I am failing on disagreeing with you again.
Only three things came to my mind:
Seeing myself comming from WoW where it is a lot about "Win" either in battlegrounds or world-PvP, I do seem to lack the "I-win" motivation, looking back on count of my won battles in Midian. So it is just the usual "Carefull with generalisation about players from scripted combat MMORPG" and bla bla.
The time I didnt void the bulletproof man was only because there were about 6 other people involved in the scene, and it seemed fair to others to remain in that scene just for continuity of the story of everyone involved. Of course I could void it, ignore it or whatever, just didnt seem fitting at the moment.
And the telporting neko was first ime in Midian I completely ignored to oblivion.
...
Oh, and my com is doing a lot of static, on that you are correct. 
EDIT: Gah, you did second edit, Charles, hehe. I will never get used to that. 
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| Chandra Meehan |
| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Location: Midian (Cementary - would love to rest in peace, but am not allowed to)
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| Mordag McCallen wrote: |
| The top of laugh was when I emptied a magazine from my G36 into target on 2 meters distance and all bullets just bounced off the full armor without making a scratch and person inside noted "As I suspected, quite undergeared." And to add, the firing came after three notices to not move step closer with gun aimed at the person. |
And there we go again with the 'not being afraid to die' that Lucca already adressed earlier in the post - it seems often enough people know they can't die withtout OOC consent given anyway and play their character as if they would know that too. *sighs*
Regarding the standards for weapons - and regarding any standards really - people seem to forget one thing: Factions don't only exist for personal entertainment. Many of the official factions also do exist to support Jade in establishing certain standards and trying to find a cool solution how to apply them to RP.
As an example: If not the Mercs and the UAC, whose RP consists 90% of weapon-use, who else would be a) interested in and b) held responsible by Jade to created realistic RP in those fields that is not ubermodded and RP that is fun for everybody.
Same goes for Vampires: All the Nightbreed does is deal with Vampire issues all day, and also with the feedback/complaints/worries regarding vampire characters in the full sim.
Same goes for MPD regarding 'law&order', same goes for MCMC regarding medical standards, same goes for the Skinwalkers.
So really people don't only need to act as if they themselves are god walking earth, they also need to acknowledge that Factionleaders don't make up shit and pull bunnies out of their hat but talk it through with Jade to the most parts as soon as it comes to 'establishing standards'. In any way I would never dare to go beyond what UAC/mercs tell me about weapons because I simply don't know shit about them as they are not part at all of my daily RP and I simply don't know the common RP problems evolving around them. ((though yeah, after playing a sylph for a week and running into all sort of bizzare shit, I at least know I am not sad about NOT having that sort or RP))
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| nekodui |
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 40
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Just cause the topic was already here, I thought I'd put up something I saw today that might support the case for mech tech being around in 2050...
http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/25/sarcos-military-exoskeleton-becomes-a-frightening-reality/
Enjoy!
((PS. The general mood in our OOC meeting today was that we are all willing to carry less in the way of guns and such and stick with simple knives, claws, swords, and guns. Any other factions willing to roll back the tech level a bit?)) |
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| mycaling |
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 146
Location: Midian City
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| nekodui wrote: |
((PS. The general mood in our OOC meeting today was that we are all willing to carry less in the way of guns and such and stick with simple knives, claws, swords, and guns. Any other factions willing to roll back the tech level a bit?)) |
Dolls are there. We'd look awful silly running around with more than that, and it would not help business any.  |
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| RoxyannRepublic |
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Weapon Standardisation
Basic Legion Weapon/Armor Set Up.
1 X Assault Rifle
1 x Sidearm (Optional)
1 x Frag Grenade
1 x Flashbang
1 x Smoke Grenade
1 x Kevlar Vest (Only good for two direct hits to the chest before it becomes useless)
1 X Helmet (Useless after a few hits)
They will not be authorised to carry any more than that due to balancing. All special weapons (flame throwers/rocket launchers) are saved for special RP Planned Events that require them.
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